It’s Time for Listener Questions!
Listener Questions on Alimony, Co-Parenting, and More
In this episode of How to Split a Toaster, Seth Nelson and Pete Wright dive into their mailbag to answer pressing questions from listeners. From alimony calculations to co-parenting challenges, Seth and Pete offer their insights and advice on navigating the complexities of divorce.
Seth and Pete tackle a range of topics, including how judges handle parenting plans for previously uninvolved parents, the intricacies of Florida's new alimony statute, and strategies for dealing with uncooperative ex-spouses in co-parenting arrangements. They also share the origin story of the podcast and express gratitude for their dedicated listeners.
Questions we answer in this episode:
Can a judge order a step-up plan for a previously uninvolved parent?
How is alimony calculated under Florida's new law?
How can I handle an ex-spouse who refuses to accommodate extra time with the kids?
Key Takeaways:
Judges must act in the best interest of the child when determining parenting plans
Alimony calculations in Florida are based on net income, not gross income
Communicate openly with your ex-spouse about co-parenting issues and aim to be the bigger person
Plus, Kristin asks about the origins of the How to Split a Toaster podcast. Seth and Pete take a walk down memory lane, recounting their initial meeting, early podcast ideas, and the journey that led to the creation of their successful show.
This episode is packed with valuable information for anyone navigating a divorce or co-parenting relationship. Seth and Pete's expert advice, combined with their engaging banter, makes for an informative and entertaining listen. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of crucial divorce-related issues and discover strategies for handling common challenges.
Links & Notes
Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!
-
Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships from TruStory FM. Today, it's Listener Questions Episode.
Seth Nelson:
This is actually some of my favorite episodes because ...
Pete Wright:
I know. Me, too.
Seth Nelson:
... we have amazing guests and they really bring in insight, but when our listeners are writing in and actually want to hear what we have to say, it's a little shocking, but it's good. I like it.
Pete Wright:
Me, too. It's one of my favorite things. So we've been doing our regular listener questions throughout the season, but we have a couple more that have been just lingering in the box. We thought we would take this opportunity to answer some questions and get the inbox cleaned out. So, keep those questions coming. Once again, howtosplitatoaster.com, and there's a button that says submit a question and it allows you to fill out a form, send in a question that gets to us. You can also visit at the bottom of howtosplitatoaster.com, there's a little box that says Ask Pete and Seth, and that is a place where you can ask questions to our AI. It's essentially you're interviewing the history of the podcast. You can learn about whether or not we've talked about past topics that you're interested in, in the past on the show. And if we have not, those questions might end up on a future Listener Question Episode, too.
Seth Nelson:
And also, Pete, I want to just say sorry if we didn't get to them timely. What we do is we review them, we try to get a question that lines up with the episode that we're doing, and then the next thing you know we're like, "Oh man, we got a bunch of questions." And then sometimes we have numerous questions that are very similar, so we'll try to massage those and make sure we're getting everyone hit. So this wasn't timely. I apologize. I didn't file a motion for extension of time, but I hope you grant us the courtesy of our understanding, getting this done. Let's do it.
Pete Wright:
All right, number one. From anonymous. Can a judge order a step-up plan for a previously uninvolved parent, or will they just go right to 50/50? I don't know what a step-up plan is, Seth.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, great question. I'm focused on Florida law. What a step-up plan is, Pete, is when, and it doesn't have to be an uninvolved parent, I'll get to that question in a minute, but a step-up plan can be, okay, we have a 4-year-old, we're going to leave the four-year-old with mom Monday through Friday. Dad's going to have every other weekend, Friday night, Saturday night. Then when the kid starts school dad's going to get Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday night, every other weekend. And when the kid turns 10, we're going to go to a 2-2-3 schedule. And then when the kid's in high school, we're going to go to week on, week off.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
So it's giving the dad, and my hypothetical, more time, stepping up more time, over time.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Not allowed under Florida family law.
Pete Wright:
Really?
Seth Nelson:
Yes. And the reason for this is because the whole basis of parenting plans is you have to act in the best interest of the child. And what the appellate courts have said is there's no way for a trial judge to know what's in the best interest of a four-year-old when the kid turns 10.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Seth Nelson:
How can you change a plan and act in the best interest if you don't know at the present time? So, now what are you stuck with? Now you're stuck with the question, you have a previously uninvolved parent, so, who's now trying to become involved, what is the judge going to do? The key thing about this is when is the final decision made? I've had judges say, "I'm going to do a temporary plan right now and my temporary plan is for the next six months, we're going to do every other weekend for dad, and then we're going to come back and see how things are going. And then I might step it up for there for the next year." So the judge kept control of the case with judicial oversight.
Pete Wright:
So it's a judge's step-up plan.
Seth Nelson:
So this ...
Pete Wright:
Really? That's really what we've created here.
Seth Nelson:
What this judge did is said, "I am going to follow this plan. I'm going to monitor it. You're going to come back to court." Okay? Now there's a lot of legal issues with that. You're entitled to have a final hearing. The judge can't keep holding onto a case for 10 years. And this case was complicated. It had been appealed. The appellate court, in my view, did not write a very good opinion. So when it came down that we argued in the trial court after the appellate court ruled, there was debate over what that opinion meant and we weren't going to appeal it again. So we just got there. Okay?
Pete Wright:
But I got to ask, how long? If the judge is saying six months, how long would a judge or could a judge be expected to drag it out?
Seth Nelson:
I don't think judges typically can do that. In this case, it was unique because there was already a step-up plan in place, and what the appellate court said is the judge could not do that without judicial oversight. So this judge said, "Well, I'm going to give you judicial oversight." 'Cos he knew we wouldn't be reversed on that issue. We didn't appeal it. We were focused on the kid. Let's get the dad time-sharing, let's move it forward. And I'll tell you, in this very unique case, it's in the court files. It's now a 50/50.
Pete Wright:
Oh. All right.
Seth Nelson:
But, uninvolved parent, so what do you do? And we've had episodes on this where you have the parent who is not involved and is being rejected by the child and you need to transition, right? You need this whole, and usually it's with an expert to do a reunification plan. And so what I try to do on these cases, depending on who I represent, if I represent the involved parent, I'm trying to get this case to court right away. Judge, here's what we need. He hasn't been involved. Now he wants to be involved. Here's what I think the plan should be, and it would be a limited plan and I would try to overcome the new presumption in Florida family law that says you act in the best interest of the child. The best interest is not to throw this kid in 50/50 to a parent needs ...
Pete Wright:
... with no track record.
Seth Nelson:
The flip side of that argument is, from the other side, I'm immediately asking for a reunification and I am powering for doing everything that reunification therapist tells me to do. I'm showing up at every game. I'm doing everything I can to show that I'm involved. I'm a good parent. I'm putting my kids' needs ahead of mine, and ultimately I'm trying to get a 50/50, but if you're smart, you'll settle for less because then you're getting quality time. Now what I see a lot is the uninvolved parents saying, "Nope, I want my fifty-fifty." And we're like, "Well, we're offering you time now." And they say no. And I bring that to the judge, when they're going for 50/50, I say, and I have my client send an email. Would you like the kid this weekend? "Nope. I want 50/50."
Okay, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Judge, we've offered him time, offered him time, offered him time. He just doesn't like the full plan that we offered, which I can't bring in front of you 'cos it's settlement negotiations. Some judges let it in improperly, but it could be a problem. So, it depends on your judge. Sorry, anonymous for giving you a, "It depends answer," but I would really work hard to try to round out these issues to get over the presumption of 50/50. Okay.
Pete Wright:
Next question. This comes from A. Nonymous.
Seth Nelson:
A little different than the other person.
Pete Wright:
So either Alex or Amanda Nonymous. This question about alimony calculations. Is alimony calculated based off gross or net income? And, next question, with the new law of 35% of the difference in incomes, is it common or rare to get that maximum amount? Oh, it seems like there's things to unpack for me.
Seth Nelson:
So this is the new alimony statute in Florida. So once again, check your local jurisdiction. This question is coming from a Florida listener, I'm assuming because they're asking about Florida law. There's two things with alimony, how much and how long? Under the new law the most someone can get is 35% of the difference in net incomes? So that's answering the first question. Is alimony calculated based off of gross or net incomes? It's in net incomes. So you have to run your taxes and then you get your net and then you do the math, and then there's a difference.
Pete Wright:
That seems like a pretty heavy, this is a commentary based on net versus gross, which is not the point, but that seems like a fairly massive loophole.
Seth Nelson:
Well, I wouldn't call it a massive loophole. It's common in Florida family law that when you're looking at child support guidelines, it starts with net because they're basically saying, we're not going to take into effect who's paying what in taxes. Let's just start with what you're "disposable income" is and what you have to work with. It will become less disposable when you have a mortgage and rent and stuff like that. So it's net incomes. Okay.
Is it common or rare to get the maximum amount? Well, that's a really good question and we haven't tried a lot of these cases yet, but this is the maximum people can get, and there is reasons under the statute that I think are very well-founded that you don't get the full amount because it talks about what is your reasonable expenses. We still have all the case law that says you don't get everything that you had when you were married because when you look at your need, and by the way, people miss this, you still have to have a need and ability to pay.
People are just going straight to 35%, but the statute has some ambiguity into it. I think it answers some questions, but leaves a lot open for interpretation and for litigation. But it will talk about basic needs. It'll talk about reasonable needs. What's basic, what's reasonable, what's actual need? They have all these different words for need with these qualifiers that haven't been defined yet, and it will happen over time, but I think that in settlement, a lot of people are just saying, well, I'll just take 35% of the difference of the net and be done and the length of time depends on how long you've been married.
So it can get pretty complicated because it also says your max is 35%, but you can combine different types of alimony and get above 35. So if you have a rehabilitative plan that's going to go on for four years and going to send you back to college to gain a skill and you're in you're in a 20-year marriage where you're entitled to 75% of the marriage for length of time of alimony, you might argue, "Judge, I'll go to school for four years, but for the next four years I'm going to need 50% the difference of the net, not 35, I got to pay for school. But when I get out, I can make more money and when I make more money, then I don't need alimony for 75% in length of marriage, I only need it for 60%."
Right? So you can make these arguments in court and see how it does. So, truthfully, I don't know the answer to your question. Is it common or rare to get the maximum amount because we haven't really litigated those cases yet. But there's reasons to negotiate down or up from them.
Pete Wright:
We did an initial sort of gut check episode when this happened and it actually dropped. If you want to go search the feed on July 18th of 2023, its titled Changes in Florida's Alimony Law, A Special Episode.
Seth Nelson:
And that was like it dropped in July. We had that out right away.
Pete Wright:
The next day.
Seth Nelson:
We were pretty quick. So what I'm learning more and going to continuing legal education and talking to my colleagues that I respect, we're really trying to drill down on this and there's going to be a lot of questions that are left unanswered. So, I would call this a mini 2.0 of that first initial discussion.
Pete Wright:
Got it. All right. Number three, Seth. This is from Jennifer. My former spouse and I, I stole that from Seth, have a 50/50 co-parenting agreement where our two kids, ages 15 and 17, are with one parent for a full week and then goes to the other parent for the next week, Sunday through Sunday. Anytime he has asked me for an extra day, a weekend, etc. for special events, example Super Bowl, I have always agreed because I thought the kids would enjoy it. We separated in April of 2021 and the divorce was final July of 2022. For several years now, he has refused to allow me to have any extra time. As an example, I had them for Memorial Day weekend and asked if they could spend Monday with me as well so that we could take a short out of town trip. He told me no. I want to do what's in the best interest of the kids, but it's getting harder to be the bigger person.
Do you have any guidance for the next time he asks to have extra time with the kids? I'm guessing that he will request to have the kids spend Easter Sunday with him and his parents, and I would like some advice on how to best handle his future requests. I have listened to your show for several years now. The two of you have great chemistry and the show is always entertaining. I find myself riding in the car by myself, listening to your podcast and laughing out loud. Thanks for all of the great advice over the past several years. You've really helped me navigate some tough issues. That's way too nice.
Seth Nelson:
Very nice. I'm really curious, do you think she just says, I want to listen to the podcast or I'm going to go ride around in the car by myself, or is she riding around in the car by herself and I got nothing else to do? I'll listen to the podcast.
Pete Wright:
That's the thing I miss most about having tiny, tiny children? Is I used to say, "Oh, I guess I have to get in the car and listen to a podcast. 'Cos I got to put them to sleep."
Seth Nelson:
That's right. That's right.
Pete Wright:
And get a frosty.
Seth Nelson:
Well, Jennifer, sorry that this is dropping after Easter Sunday. So I apologize for that. But, I feel you. I've had a lot of these questions from former clients and they're just doing everything right. It is hard to be the bigger person when it's all one-sided. So, I'm going to give you my guidance on the next time that he asks for some extra time with the kids. Immediately I would say, "I'm happy to do this. It's my perception over the past few years that I've really worked hard to accommodate when you've asked for extra time and when I've asked for extra time, it's my perception that I've always been told no. I would hope in the future when I ask for extra time, you'll really consider it because I'm trying to make this a give and take and not a one for one, it all comes out in the wash. But right now it feels like I'm not getting any extra time and just losing time."
Say yes to the request. Don't hold it as a ransom. Only if you say yes to my next request or give the request right away if I know we missed Easter, but if I say yes to Easter Sunday ...
Pete Wright:
You better give me such and such.
Seth Nelson:
... July 4th. So, give a yes so it's not a hard line in the sand. And then pretty soon thereafter, I would request a day, test the waters, and if he says no, then the next time the request comes, it might be, "I'm really sorry, but I don't feel it's best that it's always one-sided." And that'll be that.
Pete Wright:
I think that's, just from a communication perspective, everything that we have discovered is that transparency is most important, right? Because it sounds right now, like Jennifer is keeping this feeling in her pocket, and the truth of the matter is just making him aware that there's a pattern forming, might be enough to actually change some things. Shame hates the sun.
Seth Nelson:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Shame hates the sun.
Seth Nelson:
And on that point, Pete, is that, you're not asking for a reason. You don't have to have a reason to say no.
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
People are like, "Well, they asked for extra time, but I didn't really have anything planned." Well, it's your time. It's your kid's time with you. You don't need to have a plan. You're going to wake up. They're going to be there. You're going to figure something out. Right? So, now, interestingly enough in rereading this question, one's 15, one's 17, so I don't know how often these are being asked. So the only other cautionary tale I would say, Jennifer, is, is it worth raising at this point? One's about to be out of the house. The other one's only, if this is happening a couple times a year, maybe mention it, but maybe not such a hard line in the sand on the next request if he says no to yours, because is it worth the conflict?
Now, I'm not saying get run over all the time, but kids don't do well in conflict. And if you say no, the question becomes, does he then tell the kids, "Sorry you couldn't come. Mom said no."
Pete Wright:
Right. Right.
Seth Nelson:
And now the kids are in the middle. They shouldn't be. It should be between you guys. So just think about that.
Pete Wright:
But to exactly that point, Seth, it almost makes those requests more important, right? We were going to take an out of town trip with two kids that we don't get to see enough anyway because they're busy and have social lives and autonomy and agency. And so it makes those requests special little gems, I can imagine, right? Just knowing how little I see my own kids.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, I know, teenagers.
Pete Wright:
They're the worst.
Seth Nelson:
They want to live their own lives. It's ridiculous.
Pete Wright:
They don't even think about.
Seth Nelson:
So I feel a little badly, Jennifer, that didn't answer your question. It was pretty serious. We didn't tell enough jokes. When you give this wonderful review and Pete and I have this setup where we can type notes to each other, and he just said, he'll send you gas money for all the time you're riding around in the car, listening to the podcast. So send in your receipt. In fact, don't even send a receipt. Just tell him how much you owe him. He owes you. Let's do that. Let's do that.
Pete Wright:
Because all of it becomes billable time for me anyway. So Seth's going to swallow it one way or another.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, great. It's always back to the billable hour. And you thought it was just lawyers. It's really podcasters. Jennifer, thanks for the kind words. Hope that helped.
Pete Wright:
Thank you. Yes, thank you so, so much. And now we have one from Kristen. Are you ready for this?
Seth Nelson:
Let's hear it.
Pete Wright:
Just curious, how the podcast got started. I've been a long time listener as my divorce has gone on almost as long as the show.
Seth Nelson:
Poor Kristen.
Pete Wright:
Love the rapport and energy. Would like to know how you all decided to get started. Whose idea it was? And thank you for everything.
Seth Nelson:
Do you want to take this Pete?
Pete Wright:
I feel like our memory of it might end up different and that could be most fun.
Seth Nelson:
Like an old married couple. That's not how it happened.
Pete Wright:
Like an old married couple. Do you know we were originally at an unreleased show called Splitsville.
Seth Nelson:
You got to go back before that.
Pete Wright:
We got to go way back. We met years ago in a class about ...
Seth Nelson:
Social media. It was social media for businesses that Pete was teaching at Chautauqua Institute in Western New York.
Pete Wright:
See, I didn't even remember that. You're already ahead of me. And at the end of it, I think it was equivalent of, "Hey, Pete, this class has been great. You really taught me how to do this stuff and now I realize I don't want to."
Seth Nelson:
You've got this all wrong.
Pete Wright:
That's how it works.
Seth Nelson:
Pete taught this amazing class and I was like drinking the Kool-Aid. I mean, you guys know him, you listen to him. I was like, "Oh my God, I got to be doing social media." Now, when we started, then you mentioned podcasting, and I was like, yeah. So we create this concept of Splitsville.
Pete Wright:
Great artwork.
Seth Nelson:
And we had great artwork. We had this very technical podcast that we never launched, and part of it is because there were not rules under the Florida bar at the time on how to deal with podcasts. So we had to get transcriptions and I was going to have to review them, and it was a whole, whole lot of work.
Pete Wright:
We did an episode that was over an hour long of Seth talking about Excel spreadsheet.
Seth Nelson:
Excel spreadsheet for schedule of equitable distribution. It was a nightmare. I loved it, but it would've been a nightmare.
Pete Wright:
It was, it's your love language, but it was just a spreadsheet. And we promised, don't worry everybody, we'll put the link in the show notes for the video version. As if someone would want to first listen to an hour of you talking about a spreadsheet and then go watch an hour of you talking about a spreadsheet.
Seth Nelson:
So Kristen, needless to say, that show never got off the ground. I got extremely busy with the practice of law and running a firm and taking care of kids growing up and living my life. And then finally we said, "All right, let's do this. Let's get it on the calendar. Let's just start putting shows out." And we then did our research again and Splitsville was taken.
Pete Wright:
Imagine that.
Seth Nelson:
Shocking. And then with Andy, we started talking about a title and we came up with How To Split a Toaster and it's just been going ever since. But really, Pete's the one that makes the show happen. Pete and Andy, they do all the stuff behind the scenes. He's such a great interviewer and I've been on a bunch of other podcasts, but every time I come back I'm like, Pete, you're the best. So really appreciate the question and the trip down memory lane.
Pete Wright:
Memory lane, I think it's it. And I remember when we were talking about this show, I kept thinking, is this even appropriate because I've never been divorced. But really the truth is this is very much as much a marriage show as it is a divorce show.
Seth Nelson:
Relationship show.
Pete Wright:
It's great to be curious and to learn from a lot of great people. So definitely, Kristen, thank you for asking and we appreciate it. And that actually catches us up on our inbox, Seth.
Seth Nelson:
I'm never caught up on my inbox. That feels so good.
Pete Wright:
This feels really good. Clean slate. We've clean slated the inbox. So it's your job, dear listener, to fill it up again. Again, howtosplitatoaster.com and ask your questions and we will get them answered. We love having these at the end of every show. We love the occasional listener episode, so please fill the inbox, our cup must overfloweth. I think that's how that goes.
Seth Nelson:
Thanks for listening. Thanks for the questions. And I will tell you Pete, into our other listeners. I've had some potential clients call that said, "I listened to your show. It's been so helpful." And it's just so meaningful for us when people share that with us. And I've had people tell me like, "I'd learned about you here local in Tampa because my cousin on the dog side of the family, three generations or cousins once removed, they're in California and they're listening to it and they're like, well, you should hear this podcast."
And then next thing you know, we're helping them out through their divorce. But it's so much bigger than us having clients or getting clients. We're just so happy that people around the nation are listening, in the world. But use the little AI chat bot. It's really amazing. It's really cool.
Pete Wright:
Just everybody, this is for you. Seth's not listening right now. I go into the back end and I look at the questions that have been answers, and I just see strings of profanity in the AI chat but I realize it's just Seth yelling at the robots. So, I mean, you can yell at the robots if you want, but really you could also just ask you a question.
Seth Nelson:
When I do that, they just give me my own fucken' answers back. It's so annoying. Thanks for listening everyone.
Pete Wright:
Thank you so much everybody. Thanks for your time and attention. On behalf of Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright. We'll see you next week right here on How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships.
Speaker 3:
How To Split A Toaster is part of the TruStory FM Podcast Network, produced by Andy Nelson, music by T. Bless and the Professionals and DB Studios. Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How To Split A Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
