Split Happens: Using Laughter to Get Through Your Divorce with Comedian Keila Dolle
Finding Humor and Healing Through Hard Times
In this How to Split a Toaster episode, hosts Seth Nelson and Pete Wright interview comedian, podcaster, & filmmaker Keila Dolle about using humor to heal during divorce and trauma.
Keila Dolle hosts the mental health podcast Crying Behind Sunglasses, where she has raw, honest conversations about mental health issues while finding the humor in them.
Key Discussion Points
Origins of Keila's podcast and passion for destigmatizing mental health issues.
The "sexy therapist" phenomenon - men using women as emotional dumping grounds. Keila explains how the patriarchy harms men by discouraging vulnerability, putting pressure on female partners.
People who have endured the darkest situations often have the most positive mindsets and want to spread light. Keila shares an example of a woman who lost two sons to suicide but started a nonprofit focused on suicide prevention.
Biochemical benefits of laughter. Finding humor triggers feel-good chemical release.
Key Takeaways
Finding ways to laugh during painful events provides immense emotional and physical relief.
Humor bonds and connects us to others with similar struggles.
Focus on your day-to-day relationship with kids, not their last name.
Plus, we tackle another listener question! A woman asks whether she should change her children's last names after a contentious divorce to disassociate from her ex's surname. Seth and Pete advise her to focus more on building a quality relationship with her kids rather than their name.
Whether you're going through divorce or other hardships, this episode will equip you with tools to find positivity through humor. Check it out on How to Split a Toaster!
Links & Notes
Check out Keila’s podcast Crying Behind Sunglasses
Follow Keila on Instagram or check out her webpage
Check out Keila’s documentary Dancing Man and her short film We’ll Never Make It
Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!
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Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from TruStory FM. Can you make your toaster laugh?
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show, everybody. I'm Seth Nelson. As always, I'm here with my good friend, Pete Wright. Today, we're talking all about learning to stare at something hard, something you think is going to be impossible to overcome and laugh. There is very little about divorce, especially when you're going through it that's funny.
But experts agree the benefit of finding humor in our challenges can have a profound emotional and physiological effect in our bodies. To help us find a way through the trauma and uncover the funny, we have an expert on stage. Keila Dolle is a comedian, podcaster and filmmaker, and her mission is to create projects that have a social impact.
Keila hosts Crying Behind Sunglasses, a mental health podcast for cool people where she interviews comedians and experts about their issues and they find a way to laugh. Keila, welcome to the Toaster.
Keila Dolle:
Hello. Thank you for having me.
Pete Wright:
Kayla, hi, it's Pete from the podcast. And I'm so glad you're here because we're talking about finding humor in very difficult things, and what better expert to come on the show and talk about these things than a standup comic who also has their own podcast about mental health. And I have to hear how you ended up doing that before we start. Well, I've been listening to your podcast.
Let me say I've been listening to your podcast and I just finished the episode where you uncovered some hot journalism, the guy whose wife was having an affair, and found out because he woke up because the guy was in bed with them at the same time when he woke up in the morning. That's crazy. And we need to just talk about why it became your province to start a podcast about all this stuff.
Keila Dolle:
Absolutely. Well, Pete, it's so nice to have you and thank you for listening. The podcast, for those of you who are new to... you don't know me yet, it's called Crying Behind Sunglasses. So, I interview a lot of comedians and experts about their issues. We find a way to laugh about them and yes, of course, because this is a divorce podcast, you found the episode called Hashtag Divorce with another comedian, his name is Jake Breslauer.
And yeah, I wasn't ready for that whole story. I didn't know. I've been his buddy and I knew that he had been divorced, so I figured we'd dive into it. And I never know what kind of journey my guests are going to take me on. And on that day, yeah, he found his then wife at the time in bed with his friend.
Pete Wright:
While he was also in bed with the ex-wife and his friend. They were all three.
Keila Dolle:
Yes. It's a good listen.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, it's not like he walked in like you see in the movies.
Pete Wright:
No.
Keila Dolle:
No.
Pete Wright:
No.
Seth Nelson:
Right.
Pete Wright:
I just want to talk about that experience. He's not here, so I just want to just trash talk his ex-wife. I'm not going to, that's not a good way to start this show. So, let's talk then about what is it that made you decide, look, I think I can host a show that deals with mental health in a way that's not going to be insensitive at the same time that we're finding humor in the things that we share?
Keila Dolle:
I grew up with a brother who has autism, not the Big Bang Theory kind, but the real kind. So, I've always been an advocate for people who have disabilities. And then, in my own journey, I figured out, I'd say probably towards the end of college and when I was coming into young adulthood that I had my own issues with panic attacks and anxiety that I needed to deal with and go to therapy.
And I felt such a disconnect between who I was being on the outside, this performer who's making everyone laugh, and then secretly dealing with all these issues. I didn't want to keep it a secret anymore, so I thought let's talk about it. And that's how I started Crying Behind Sunglasses in 2020, which is three years ago. And it's just been a great community, and I've learned so much from everybody I've talked to.
And also, it's really nice to just destigmatize these topics, whether it's depression, anxiety, divorce, different life events and losses that people go through because this is part of the human experience. If everything was just sunshine and roses all the time, then life wouldn't be interesting. I think just helping people feel less alone is something I've always been really passionate about. And so, just being able to put these two things together of laughter as well as helping people is something that has made me feel really good.
Seth Nelson:
I will tell you very honestly because I like to be open, honest, and vulnerable, and have conversations like that because I think then people are being true and authentic, and that's the better experience. I'm nervous about having you on the show because I know that in my house, I am the least funny person, but we have a comedian on the show. I'm just worried all the jokes are going to fall flat, Pete. And so, I'm just a little nervous here today.
Pete Wright:
I don't think you need to worry about it because you made funny children and so you are okay. Your sins of lack of humor personally are all absolved because you have funny offspring. That's how it works. There's a genetic law of comedy.
Seth Nelson:
So, my father says to my son when he was little and was getting all these amazing grades, he goes, "You know what they say?" In his sweet little voice, he goes, "What grandpa?" And my father says, "Genius, it skips a generation."
Keila Dolle:
That's the same thing with humor.
Seth Nelson:
The same thing with humor. Is that what you're saying?
Keila Dolle:
That's the exact same thing.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. I'm good now.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, yeah. I think that's accurate. My mother is a financial planner. I love her to death, but-
Pete Wright:
Case example.
Keila Dolle:
... she's not a very creative person and it does. Yeah, it skips a generation.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, all right. Well, Pete, Keila, enjoy the show.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
I'll just sit here quietly.
Keila Dolle:
No, Seth, listen, you have to be here to tell us facts and to keep things structured. Otherwise, we're just going to go off a cliff.
Pete Wright:
Right. So, you just let us know when that starts, Seth, we'll be here too. Look, so you're not divorced yourself.
Keila Dolle:
No, but I'm a divorce adjacent is what I like to say.
Pete Wright:
I know. First of all, you've got to tell the story of why you are a divorce adjacent. You're also a child of divorce.
Keila Dolle:
Yes. Everyone is at this point, right?
Pete Wright:
Right, right. Statistically, yeah, just sneeze into the wind. You'll find somebody who gets hit by your divorce story. Because what I'm curious about in terms of your personal divorce story is how those two things are, if at all, related for you that you're a child of divorce and your divorce adjacent story. So, tell me about it.
Keila Dolle:
Well, let's see, let's go back to the beginning. So, I was born in San Diego.
Pete Wright:
Okay. But your mom meets your dad, all right?
Keila Dolle:
Yes. When a man and a woman love each other very, very much-
Pete Wright:
Very much.
Keila Dolle:
No. So, I was born in San Diego. It was me, and my brother who's a year and a half older than me, and my mom, and my biological dad. They split when I was like a baby, baby, baby. So, I have not seen him since I was three years old. He passed away when I was 18 from alcoholism. So, that's a whole other fun story. After they separated, because of my brother's disability, he didn't accept my brother, and he didn't want to see my brother.
He only wanted to see me and my mom said, "They're a package deal. You have to see both children, or neither of them." And he said, "All right, bye." And that was that. And I have to say I really admire my mom for what she did of getting us out of the situation with him. He was an alcoholic, and verbally abusive, and of course, he had other good qualities, but the bad outweighed the good there.
And he was just not a good fit for our family, especially with my mom was up against with my brother. He didn't talk until he was four. She had to get him into good therapies, and good schools, and be really proactive about that. And if someone is not going to be on board about that, he wanted to send my brother to an institution.
Pete Wright:
That's some really old school futile trauma right there. That's not good.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah. And maybe you guys know this, but there are some pretty high statistics for families who have children with autism as far as divorce scopes. It really can tear a family apart because it puts a big strain on the marriage. So, that was that. And my mom got remarried, and I was lucky to have a father figure in my life and they're still together. But then, I guess fast forward to you were asking about my own divorce adjacent story. So, during the pandemic, like many other people, I just went into a very ill-advised whirlwind romance.
Pete Wright:
During the pandemic, that's actually not-
Keila Dolle:
During.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, that's interesting. Okay.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, it was a childhood best friend who I had known for 20 years. And so, I thought I can trust this person. And it moved a lot quicker than I would normally and-
Seth Nelson:
And nothing else going on.
Pete Wright:
Clearly.
Seth Nelson:
Pandemic.
Keila Dolle:
Nothing was going on. The world is burning and we're inside burning for each other.
Pete Wright:
So hot, just so hot right now.
Seth Nelson:
Because Pete, as you know, when two people love each other very much.
Pete Wright:
Very much.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah. And then, that situation, I would say weirdly did mirror a lot of the stuff in my family where I thought I could trust this person. And then, it turned really toxic, and it was weird because everything was totally fine until you put a ring on my finger, and then suddenly, the families get involved.
Pete Wright:
Does it start to burn your skin? Because I've heard that sometimes happens when it's not meant to be.
Keila Dolle:
I don't know. I don't know. I do remember when he proposed, he didn't even make a speech. And I feel like he had a sign that just said will you marry me? And he was down on a knee.
Seth Nelson:
Did he spell it correctly, at least?
Keila Dolle:
He did. But I remember he was on a knee, and I walk out to the backyard, and I look at him and I was like, I don't know, when he first-
Pete Wright:
What happened next?
Keila Dolle:
I was waiting for him to say something. He didn't say anything. I was like, "Are you going to say something?" And he just pointed at the sign.
Seth Nelson:
And did you feel at that time woefully unprepared because you didn't have a sign that said yes or no?
Keila Dolle:
You're right. I should have had a sign. But anyway, yeah, he had a lot of unresolved childhood trauma as many people do. And I think that it's not a good recipe for success if there's one person who's done a lot of therapy, and a lot of work, and another person who hasn't. It really just didn't work out. So, I had to call off a wedding, which is so fucking dramatic.
It's just because we had already sent out the save the dates, we had the venue, I had the dress, the whole thing. But it was just very clear to me that I was trying, I was trying really hard. I was trying everything to save the relationship as far as cook him a nice dinner, let's go on a nice trip, let me put on some romantic music and try to have this sort of night or talk to him about his feelings. But it just wasn't happening.
Seth Nelson:
Guys love that. They love it when women talk about their feelings.
Pete Wright:
Seriously or try to get them to talk about their feelings, yeah.
Keila Dolle:
Well, I'll just say I'm here for you because he was going through it and it just wasn't working out. So, I had to call it, and it was very dramatic and-
Seth Nelson:
Do you know the best thing about calling off a wedding? No attorney's fees.
Keila Dolle:
That was what I said. I said, "It's cheaper to call off a wedding than it is to get a divorce."
Seth Nelson:
That's right, 100%.
Pete Wright:
Well, we've done a lot of good work here today, people. I got to go back to something you said though, which I think is really important, and it's something that you've talked about in not one episode of your podcast, which is the idea of being your... I think in the Hashtag Divorce one, you said you don't want to be your spouse's or your partner's sexy counselor.
Keila Dolle:
Sexy therapist, yeah.
Pete Wright:
Sexy therapist, yeah. So, what is the sexy therapist and why is that a terrible idea on the road to divorce?
Keila Dolle:
Well, for me specifically, I don't know if this is a universal problem that all women deal with.
Pete Wright:
Well, that's why I bring it up because I think it should be. I want to make sure that you get credit for coining the term and making it because I think it's universal.
Keila Dolle:
Okay.
Pete Wright:
I don't know. Seth can be the ruler on that.
Seth Nelson:
Well, let's hear what it is and then I'll give you my two cents.
Keila Dolle:
So, I've been hosting this mental health podcast for a few years, and as I've done that, then I attract a lot of broken birds that are like, "Oh, about mental health. I'm depressed and you're hot."
Seth Nelson:
Let's go out.
Pete Wright:
"Let's go out. Let me tell you all my problems." And that sort of thing or like, "Hey, I just started going to therapy and I want to tell you all about it."
Seth Nelson:
Because nothing is more than a turn on thing.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Can I hear about your-
Seth Nelson:
And I'm like, "Hey, having a guy talk about all his problems."
Keila Dolle:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
I can't wait to hear about that.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, such a turn on. And so, then I think that that's the problem is in our society, the patriarchy really doesn't serve anyone. So, men are socialized to not talk about their feelings, which then leads them to not understand their own emotions because they don't have anyone to talk about it with. And then, as they get older, and if they are going into a heterosexual relationship, they're then using women as their therapists, or their moms or that sort of thing. And I feel like it's a lot of emotional labor that I would rather not do.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Well, which it gets to something that to me, I don't know, Seth. Tell me what you think about this, but to me, it feels like if the relationship is falling apart because of emotional incompatibility, this definitely feels like something to sniff out that it's possible that we've transitioned to sexy therapist mode.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Oh, 100%. Let me tell you, I'm going to just say some phrases that clients in the past have told me about their male spouses, and I think it falls into this category a little bit. Like overgrowing frat boy, he never grew up since college. And I've done all this work on myself. We've grown, we have children. We're not in our twenties anymore. Others are like all he talks about is the sports course.
He'll ask how was my day, but he doesn't ever listen to the answer. And then, when they start splitting up and they finally clue in like, "Oh my God, she's really going to leave, and now I have to go to therapy, and that's what I have to do to save my marriage." Then, the guys that get it, that's all they want to talk about. They go 180, let's do it. Let's go talk about it all the time, all the time. And she's like, "No, just figure some of this out on your own. Quit asking me." So, that's the dichotomy of it all.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. It's that dichotomy, it's the duality of the role that you serve for each other, and that therapy is a thing for you partner. It's a thing for you to learn about yourself, not for you to, I don't need to report every day before sexy time. That's the sexy therapist duality. We're not going to talk about all the things you feel like you need to unload to prove somehow that you are awake in the relationship.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, it's too little, too late also. You're saying someone going to therapy to save the relationship. If it's at that point, it's probably too late.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Right, a day late and a dollar short.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
100% on that.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Let's talk about laughing at hard things because it seems like every episode is about hard things. And I'm curious what you've learned about helping people to laugh about hard things in the course of doing the podcast.
Keila Dolle:
Well, I would say that I've learned a lot because the people who have gone through the darkest things a lot of times are the ones who have the most positive attitude. There was a woman that I interviewed on my show who had lost two different sons to suicide. I remember going into that interview thinking, I'm a little nervous. How can I find the light in this?
And I find that the people who have gone through those really hard things, they're the ones that now, they're fighting even harder to have that positivity, if that makes sense. She turned that whole thing around, and now she has this program where she goes out to schools and talks about suicide prevention. And none of that ever would've happened if these tragedies had not befall her family.
So, that's something that I've learned. And I think just also that part of the human experience is that we go through these struggles and we're all here to have different lessons, whether that's someone who has an eating disorder, and then has to learn how to love her body, or I've had guests on that are trans that trying to figure out their identity and then seeing how that fits into the world. We all have different struggles, but that's what makes us human. And I think the problem is-
Seth Nelson:
The part of being able to laugh about it. It's such a release when you laugh.
Keila Dolle:
Yes. Because then it no longer has power over you, I think is the big deal. And for me, especially, being able to go on stage, or on my show, and talk about how silly it is when I'm having a panic attack, and I have to lay down on the floor or all these different neurotic things that we all do, it's a good release because it connects me with other people.
Seth Nelson:
I get it 100% because I make jokes with my clients all the time because they're just so fucking stressed out. And depending on the judge, I will crack jokes in court. Now, that is a delicate balance.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, that's risky.
Seth Nelson:
There're some judges I will never even try it. And other judges, I've just hit it out of the park to the point where the judge is cracking up so hard, he looks at the court reporter and says, off the record. He can't contain himself because of the joke that I just made and usually-
Pete Wright:
Are there any judges that see you coming and ask for a tight five because that's what you know you've arrived?
Seth Nelson:
That's right. I can't wait. I can't wait. Mr. Nelson, before we get started.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
But 99% of the jokes that I make in court are all self-deprecating humor. I'm making fun of myself.
Keila Dolle:
You have to.
Seth Nelson:
And that usually will play.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, yeah. I talked about how my family is a charcuterie board of various mental illnesses. That always gets a laugh because it's like people can relate to that or also just calling out. This is just like if you're really trying to develop your type five, Seth.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, appreciate this.
Keila Dolle:
You're already on the right path because usually, if you want to develop an opener, it should be something that's about yourself that's like, "Oh, I know what you're thinking. I look like this or I sound like this." For me, it's like I'm a recovering emo kid with a theater degree and that explains a lot. So, I don't know what that would be for you. I don't know you well enough yet, but I think you're on your way.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. We're on it. We're on it. My wife is very funny and my son is ridiculously funny. So, we'll see.
Keila Dolle:
Well, see, you're a straight man. So, you're like the foil for them and that serves a purpose as well.
Seth Nelson:
Yes. That pretty much describes my life right there. But no, to this point though about humor in going through dark times and Pete, I think we were just talking on this about a show last week or the week before. One of the things I say to clients all the time, they're like, "Oh my God, this couldn't be worse. This process is so terrible." They're going on and on.
And one of the things I always say, I'm like, "No, it can be worse." They're like, "What's one good thing?" I said, "You never have to sleep with the guy again." And they're like, "Okay, you're right." But it's just this unbelievable emotional release, and you can see it in their body, how they perk up, how they get some color back. It just gives a pause to the craziness and allows you to reset and say, "All right, let's just solve this problem."
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, you shouldn't take yourself so seriously because it's just going to make everything worse.
Pete Wright:
And that's the chemical impact of finding humor is not to be undersold. This is the sort of dopamine, serotonin, super friends relationship in your body that when you laugh, it allows you to unlock parts of your chemical makeup that heal you, that can make you actually feel better. And also, in doing so, not get so lost in the uncertainty that you're experiencing in the midst of the legal system and the unraveling of the emotional relationship.
The chemicals help, but you have to make it a practice. You have to turn it into something where you're willing to practice finding the funny things. And that can, I imagine, as Seth has been talking about, as your show illustrates, living for a while in the gallows humor to recognize the funny stuff in the darkness.
And I know I've told this, it's been a while since I told this story, but when my dad died, the doctor comes out to us, he was still alive, and he gave us some terrible news. My mom looks at the doctor and says, "Are you telling me that my husband is dying?" And the doctor turns around and says, "I'm not saying he's not dying."
That chicken shit double negative became an anthem of humor in the process of my dad's passing because this doctor was the worst. And we have actually been able to buoy ourselves through that by laughing. And sometimes you just drop a good double negative sometimes and it just makes you feel good that you remember, there was actually a lot of joy in that life, and we were able to remember how stupid the process is. And so, yeah, living in the gallows can be actually buoyant.
Keila Dolle:
Absolutely, yeah. That's hysterical. Is dad dying? Well, he's not not dying.
Pete Wright:
He's not not dying. And he's not undying. How many stupid ways?
Keila Dolle:
We all kind of dying every day since we've been born.
Pete Wright:
He's on the spectrum. Let's just stay that.
Keila Dolle:
It's amazing.
Seth Nelson:
So, I can't believe I've even thought of this. My great aunt passed away many, many years ago. I was in college. And it was over a Jewish holiday, so you can't bury someone in the Jewish religion on a Jewish holiday. So, on the Tuesday afterwards, there was a line to get into the cemetery because all these people had died in New York City that were Jewish and none of them could be buried timely. So, there was this long line hearse after hearse after hearse. And so, you're just waiting in these cars forever.
Pete Wright:
Oh my God.
Seth Nelson:
And this woman in her 20s, who's also a college student or of college age, walks by, and I'm in the car and we kind of catch each other's eyes. And my mother catches me catching this young woman's eyes and she goes, "What are you going to do? Hit on her?" And I said, "Maybe." And then, my mom goes, "Well, where would you kind of hook up?" I'm like we're at-
Pete Wright:
That is not where I expected your mother to go.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. Well, you didn't get to know her very well. This is not surprising. When I was in middle school, she handed out condoms for the homecoming, wouldn't you know?
Keila Dolle:
Wow, in middle school.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Nice. Good God.
Seth Nelson:
So, literally, she goes, "Well, where would you hook up?" And then, I look around and I say, "Aunt Dottie is not using the hearse on the way back." And that became a joke for years whenever a hearse would go by.
Pete Wright:
Aunt Dottie's hearse. Oh my God.
Seth Nelson:
But that's the type of thing, we were sitting there, what felt like for hours, it might've been 45 minutes or an hour, waiting to bury what was really my grandmother, even though it was my great aunt. My grandmother and what was really my mom's mom because my mom's mom died when she was just 19, and Aunt Dottie stepped in that role.
So, there's all this grief going on, but that became a joke for years and years just off of a little humor during a very dark time. And I see it all the time in divorce. I see it all the time of the stress relief and Pete, the chemical reaction is going. And when you can get people laughing, especially at themselves, that's always the best because then they realize what they're really stressed about isn't that needed. You don't need to be that level of crazy or stress about this one issue, this too will pass.
Pete Wright:
And you get to remember that you're not not going to hook up with that girl at that cemetery.
Seth Nelson:
That's right. Exactly.
Pete Wright:
Do you see? That's called a callback in the business.
Seth Nelson:
In the biz.
Pete Wright:
Let's talk about wow moments. Keila, what's your biggest wow moment since you've been doing the show?
Keila Dolle:
Through doing that work, I've become really passionate about just learning more about psychology, and mental health, and figuring out how I can help in the community. And so, last year I started volunteering with a local organization called Peace Over Violence. I went through an eight-week, 80-hour training to become a volunteer crisis counselor.
Once a week now, I answer the phone for domestic violence and sexual assault hotline here in Los Angeles. And it's just been really eye-opening for me and I feel like I'm making a really big difference directly in people's lives. And a lot of these people who call in, they'll tell me things that they can't tell anyone else or they're really in trouble.
And I'm just really happy to be able to listen, and offer support, refer them to resources. Yeah, it's been really great. And if people want to check it out, it's Peace Over Violence. They're one of the first ever crisis hotlines in America. They've been around for 50 years, and so it's pretty cool.
Pete Wright:
Wow. How have I never heard of them?
Keila Dolle:
They run the domestic violence sexual assault hotline in Los Angeles, but I know that they do initiatives all around the country now as well.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, fascinating. I think the podcast is great, and as you start thinking about the things that the way you help people stay positive in their interpersonal work, I think is really lovely. What has changed in the way you look for healthy relationships?
Keila Dolle:
I will say after going through the training, the volunteer training, dating was a lot harder.
Pete Wright:
That's really dark. Oh my God. I just realized how dark that would be.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah. Well, it's just like my standards are so high, and I know all the red flags, and I just don't put up with. You know what I mean?
Seth Nelson:
Do you trust your instinct on that though?
Keila Dolle:
Yes. You have to learn to trust your instinct, especially as a woman. And I think that second guessing yourself is not good. Whatever your gut instinct is, it's better to follow that.
Seth Nelson:
And that's a red flag to yourself. If you start second guessing yourself, then there might be something wrong with this relationship. Is that a way to identify like, "Hey, I keep second guessing myself in this relationship, maybe this isn't the right relationship for me?"
Keila Dolle:
Yeah. I guess that's a separate issue of if this person is making me question myself and who I am, then of course that's not the right person for you. But I mean more so, just basic stuff of spotting a narcissist, or spotting someone who may have early markers of an abuser, or maybe just someone who hasn't done the work. I'm in a lovely relationship now with someone who has been to therapy, thank God. But when I was only-
Seth Nelson:
That's what my wife always said, by the way, is why wouldn't you want to date a divorced guy who actually did the work? The first relationship, she went through to hell, hopefully, he's done the work and realized it. Now, if they haven't done the work, you're out.
Keila Dolle:
He's divorced, actually. So, that's to your point is that he did it-
Pete Wright:
Yeah, done the work.
Keila Dolle:
... he knows what doesn't work, what works for him, and here we are. And I would argue dating someone who's divorced is actually a good thing because they have experience and they're not afraid to commit.
Seth Nelson:
That's right.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right.
Keila Dolle:
But yeah, I would say with dating, as far as having all this knowledge, I remember when I was still on the dating apps, I put in my bio, I was on one of these JSwipe, it's like a Jewish dating app, and I put, just looking for a nice Jewish boy who's been to therapy to put some dairy free smear on my everything bagel. It wasn't my-
Pete Wright:
That's adorable.
Keila Dolle:
... tagline.
Pete Wright:
That's adorable. Did that work? Is that where you met your current?
Keila Dolle:
No.
Pete Wright:
No, it didn't take. Okay.
Keila Dolle:
Well, we didn't meet on an app, but I think that doing the dating app thing, it's not all bad. You learn about what you like, what you don't like, and I have friends who have met partners through that. So, it's as good a way to meet someone as anywhere else. I think the only problem is that if you don't have any mutual friends with that person, it's not as easy to vet them.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, for sure.
Seth Nelson:
Right. But if you guys split up, there's no dividing friends.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, dividing friends, you're always going to lose those friends.
Pete Wright:
Sides will be picked.
Keila Dolle:
Sides will be picked like with my ex-fiancé, which by the way, saying ex-fiancé sounds like I'm like a soap opera star, right?
Seth Nelson:
That's why we had you on the show.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Keila Dolle:
Because ex-husband is like, oh, ex- fiancé, ooh, what happened?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. There's drama.
Seth Nelson:
Those ex-husbands, they're a dime a dozen, ex- fiancé, which I just said this the other day to my wife because we just were recently married, and I told her I was going to introduce her as my ex- fiancé, which is a true statement.
Keila Dolle:
Ex-fiancé, current wife.
Pete Wright:
Right, acquitted, right.
Seth Nelson:
Acquitted. Well, Keila, I'll also share with you this, with my first wife, I would introduce her as my first wife, and she would look at me very annoyed, and I said, "I'm your second husband. What's the problem?" Well, it turns out there was a lot of problems with the way I was introducing her, hence the divorce. Okay. I take full responsibility.
Keila Dolle:
Oh my God.
Seth Nelson:
So, words matter, Pete.
Pete Wright:
My God, man, I did not know that.
Seth Nelson:
You didn't know that?
Pete Wright:
No. You were on the divorce row and your former spouse is a lovely human being. How could you possibly treat them like that in introductions?
Seth Nelson:
She's amazing. We're still very close, as you know, Pete. I made a lot of mistakes, and then I went to therapy and I figured it out.
Keila Dolle:
There you go.
Pete Wright:
Hallelujah. Okay. Well, look, Keila, thank you for hanging out with us. Give us the plug for the podcast officially.
Keila Dolle:
Yeah, absolutely. This was a lovely chat. I appreciate you having me on. And anybody who wants to connect, it's called Crying Behind Sunglasses. You can find it anywhere you listen to your favorite pods or go to cryingbehindpod.com. My name's Keila Dolle, so you guys hopefully will put link to my Instagram or any of that stuff in the comments. Yeah, it's been really great, and I just want people to know, no matter what it is that you're going through, it's never too late to make a change in your life for the better. So, don't give up hope.
Pete Wright:
Mic drop. There we go. That's our mic drop moment. Thank you so much, Keila. You're fantastic. And we are going to transition to listener questions. Seth, we have a listener question, and I'm very excited about it because I think you are the guy who's going to help.
Seth Nelson:
You're already laughing. This is not good.
Pete Wright:
I've never considered this. I have never considered this, and I think it's really interesting. So, here we go. We've never done an episode on this, brand new hot off the question press. Hi guys, forgive me if you've heard this one and talked about it. I'm still working through the back catalog of your fantastic podcast emphasis.
Seth Nelson:
No, that's why Andy picked this question.
Pete Wright:
Right, right.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, keep going.
Pete Wright:
You guys are too funny. Anyhow, I'm Greek, but married to a Western Canadian family, and changed my name to my soon to be ex-husbands. Now, we are divorcing, and I'm wondering what my consideration should be around my children's last names. I have two, a son and a daughter, nine and 11 years old.
The dissolution of our marriage has been rocky, and I believe that my children would rather not be associated with the current family name. Is this something that you would recommend I explore? Have you ever heard of this sort of concern? Check my local jurisdiction. I know, I think I can hear the eyes rolling as-
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, I can't do it, that's great though.
Pete Wright:
But I'm embarrassed to ask the question of my own attorney team before I find out if the whole idea is lunacy. Thank you.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. First off, never be embarrassed to ask your attorney anything. They've heard it all. It is not lunacy. Now, in Florida, check your local jurisdiction, it's really hard to change a child's last name, and I don't think at nine and 11, a court is going to bring the kids in to say, yes, I want to change my name.
Pete Wright:
Because they don't have agency as adults in the eyes of the court.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
So, people get hung up on this a lot, and I actually think that they put too much weight into this consideration. First off, when your children turn 18, if they want to change their name, they'll have the power to do so. They can change it to anything they want. Ultimately, a family is about how you guys connect on a daily, weekly, monthly basis when you're texting, when you're chatting, when you're on the phone, when you're going to their sporting events, or extracurriculars or helping them with homework.
That's what it's about. And I have known people that didn't change their last name because they wanted to keep it the same as their children's. I have others that didn't change their name at first, but ultimately changed their name later. I've had people wait to change their name until their kids were 18, and then they changed it.
I had people that changed their name immediately and they couldn't wait to change their name because they never liked it. They didn't like the spelling. They didn't like how to say it all over again. But as far as the family relations, I think there's a lot of weight that people put on themselves about this. Nobody cares what your last name is. To them, it makes no difference.
It's all about how you internalize it, and I think that's what you should be talking to your kids about. I would ask your lawyer and say, is there a way to do this? It is important to us. I would say I think it's more important to you than what's really happening in your relationship with your kids. And your kids ultimately live their lives as them, not as their father.
So, I would just have that conversation with them. If they're coming to you like, "Oh, I want to change my name." I don't know if a judge will let you, I'm not opposed to it, but let's just really think about what does it mean to have a name? What about this? What about that? How do you live your life? And when you turn 18, you're allowed to do it. But for now-
Pete Wright:
It's not something that happens. It's not a natural part of the divorce process to ask the question, what do you want your kids' names to be?
Seth Nelson:
That's correct. It's not natural, no. Well, it's not natural that a court will actually grant it. Sometimes when the kids are little and they don't know the name, but if you have a nine- and 11-year-old who know the name, now the interesting part of this question is the kids don't want to be associated with the name. And the question is, is that a true statement? If so, why? Are you poisoning the well?
And I'm not saying that you are, to the listener, but you just got to be careful about how you go about doing this. And ultimately, it's not uncommon in today's society that some women will still change their name when they get married. My wife and I joked about changing our last names because she still has her ex-husband's name.
And someone said, "Would you change it to Seth's last name?" And she's like, "No, I'm keeping my ex-husband's name," which I think is funny. But we joked about changing it to my former spouse's last name, but we would both change it. We're going back to her maiden name. And my whole point of this is the name doesn't matter. It's the relationship that you have with who's in your life.
Pete Wright:
I think there might be, and I don't want to read too much into this, but I think that she wrote in the question that she's Greek married into a Western family with a western name. And I wonder if there is a little bit of extra weight, cultural weight, like wanting to get back to a family name that is of Greek.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, go back to the motherland roots. Absolutely, that's a great reading. I was trying to think of a Greek-Canadian joke that I couldn't come up with. That's why I didn't mention that part of the question. But that's a very good serious point, where if you feel more connected to one side of the family in that heritage, and you want to be seen more as a Greek to the outward world, and not have the name Smith, by way of example, this is anonymous. I don't know what these names are, but yeah, that makes sense to me.
Pete Wright:
Well, I really appreciate the question. It's something I'd never thought of, and thank you so much, Anonymous, who is now clearly named Sarah Smith Putin, and that is the name going forward, and we understand why it has become a question for you. Thanks for listening. We appreciate that. And thank you all for downloading and listening to this show, a fantastic conversation with Keila Dolle.
Definitely check out that podcast, Crying Behind Sunglasses, and let us know your questions. Just head over to howtosplitatoaster.com and click the Ask a Question, and we'll ask a question to Seth just on your behalf. Thank you everybody for downloading and listening. We appreciate your time and attention. On behalf of Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright. We'll see you next week right back here on How to Split a Toaster, A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships.
Outro:
How to Split a Toaster is part of the TruStory FM podcast network, produced by Andy Nelson, music by T. Bless & the Professionals and DB Studios. Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce & Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice.
Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce & Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
