Co-Parenting Strategies: Supporting Your Kids After Divorce • Your Divorce Case with Leanne Tran
Parenting Across Two Homes: Strategies for Success After Divorce
In this installment of our Your Divorce Case series, Seth Nelson and Pete Wright continue the conversation about parenting plans by exploring the realities of co-parenting children across two households after divorce. They are joined by Leanne Tran, a registered psychologist who specializes in working with children and families dealing with autism, ADHD, and learning disorders. Building upon the previous episode about crafting effective parenting plans, Seth and Pete dive deeper into the impacts of divorce on children and strategies for successful co-parenting, with a special focus on the unique considerations for neurodivergent kids.
Leanne shares valuable insights on the key factors that influence how children cope with the changes brought by divorce, such as the level of parental conflict, disruption to routines and sense of identity, and the emotional and behavioral signs of distress parents should watch out for. The discussion also touches on the additional challenges faced by neurodivergent children, who may struggle more with transitions, need for sameness, and sensory sensitivities. Leanne emphasizes the importance of parents being on the same page, providing consistency across households, and being mindful of the impact on siblings as well.
Questions we answer in this episode:
What signs indicate a child is struggling emotionally with divorce?
How can parents best support neurodivergent children across two homes?
What should be considered when introducing a new partner to the family dynamic?
Key Takeaways:
Changes in behavior, emotions, sleep, appetite, and interests can signal distress.
Consistency, predictability, and catering to sensory needs are crucial for neurodivergent kids.
Clear communication and gradual introductions help children adjust to new partners.
Through the lens of her expertise, Leanne provides valuable guidance for parents navigating the complexities of co-parenting, both for neurotypical and neurodivergent children. This episode offers practical tips and compassionate advice to help families thrive after divorce, building upon the foundation of a well-crafted parenting plan discussed in the previous episode. Tune in for insights that can make a real difference in your post-divorce parenting journey.
Links & Notes
Find Leanne on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and her website
Listen to Leanne’s podcast Parent Like a Psychologist
Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!
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Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships from TruStory FM. Today, there's just no great time-sharing plan for a toaster.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everybody. I'm Seth Nelson. As always, I'm here with my good friend, Pete Wright. Last week, as you know, we talked about creating a parenting plan with the best interests of the kids as our top priority. Today, we're jumping off that conversation into the muddy waters of actually parenting kiddos when their lives are split across two homes.
Leanne Tran is a registered psychologist who works with children's and families. The families count on her to help them understand autism, ADHD, specific learning disorders and so much more. Pete, here's the question. What do we have to learn about parenting kids across two homes? Maybe the host of a podcast called Parent Like a Psychologist can help. Leanne, welcome to the Toaster.
Leanne Tran:
Thank you so much for having me.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. I'm jumping in Pete. I know you can start the show off.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, it's all you.
Seth Nelson:
But here's my concern, Parent Like a Psychologist. Here's my concern is I know, and I'm speaking about my uncle who's a pediatrician, he gave the worst medical advice to his children. And God loved my cousins. I don't know how they survived their childhood, but for my aunt that would tell my uncle, "You don't know anything about pediatric medicine, let me care for my children."
Pete Wright:
Well, let's just say that. Have you ever heard of a podcast called Parent Like a Pediatrician? No.
Seth Nelson:
So, Leanne, I'm just a little suspect. I'm telling you right now, but I think you're going to prove me wrong.
Leanne Tran:
Well, here's what's nerve wracking for me. I am married to a pediatrician. I'm sorry.
Pete Wright:
Oh my God.
Seth Nelson:
I didn't even know it, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Leanne Tran:
No, no. So, I'm running through in my mind, first of all, should I tell him to make a podcast Parent Like a Pediatrician maybe, but also thinking about now the medical advice he's given our children and I'm wondering if I need to get a second opinion.
Seth Nelson:
No, I think you need a divorce lawyer. Okay.
Pete Wright:
Note, Leanne, there's no podcast called Parent Like a Divorce Lawyer. No podcast.
Leanne Tran:
No, no, probably not.
Pete Wright:
I am really glad you're here. This is great timing. It's great timing for us this season. As we said, as Seth said in the introduction, we spent last week talking about building a parenting plan, which comes from the perspective so much of the legal side of the house, which is just the practical, how do you actually do it? What do you write on the plan to make it work?
Now we need to talk about the impact of the kids of that plan. What happens to kiddos when they're asked to split their lives between two places? Does that too broad a question? Does that give you something to latch onto?
Leanne Tran:
It does. Yeah. It is broad, but also it's not at the same time. I think it really depends on the context and so for kids, it depends whether their parents are getting along or not getting along that makes a really big difference because if parents aren't getting along, kids can feel that. If they're trying to compete with each other, kids can feel that. And if they sometimes are overtly putting their kid in the middle, kids can feel that as well.
And so, that can be really, really disruptive. But assuming things are all going as well as possible, I mean we talk about divorce being amicable, but it's always like it's not really a 100% amicable. Even if it is, I think there's always a big change on both people's part, but if things are going as smoothly as possible, the impact it has on kids I think is a little bit of a disruption about who they are as people where I had my home and community, maybe that's changed a little bit because there's two now. Maybe they've moved out of their home and they're living in two new places. So, it can disrupt their sense of identity and connection.
Seth Nelson:
I think that the disruption, it's the parents who got a divorce, the parents are inflicting a divorce on the kids. If it was a 100% amicable, they'd still be married. I'd like to think. Right?
Leanne Tran:
That's what I was trying to hint at. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
So, when you look at this and when you think about the impact of kids, I'm thinking, what are the emotional and behavioral, and I'll separate those two things intentionally. What are those signs that parents should be on the lookout for that maybe their kids are in some state of distress?
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's all kids are different, so I think how you can approach it is by changes. So, if you notice things like a change in your child's behavior normally if they might be acting out a little bit more or yeah, that's probably the biggest one to watch for behavior. And with emotions, it could be that you see the emotions themselves being different, whether that's more moodiness or snapping and more negative emotions.
But if you don't see that there are other things you can watch out for that indicate emotional difficulties, like not sleeping as well as they usually would, potentially not eating the same, feeling tired or lethargic or where they don't enjoy physical activity or interests and hobbies they used to like. Those things are all changes that point towards some emotional problems underneath.
Seth Nelson:
Now on that emotional problems underneath, you said something that just my ears just picked up there because you said the divorce could impact the kids on changing their own identity and that's not something we've heard on the show before, Pete.
Pete Wright:
No.
Seth Nelson:
I've been doing this a long time, so can you speak to that? It seems to me everything you're saying about watch what they're eating, they're not doing the same enjoyment of activities or maybe they're just locking themselves in the room longer and being on their electronics longer. Which kids these days, it's hard to tell the difference, but it seems like that would be the outward appearance of problems and one of those problems might be changing their identity. What does that mean?
Leanne Tran:
We form our identity by the messages that are reinforced to us, and maybe I'm thinking about it from this lens of kids who have different needs, who are the ones I work with ADHD and autistic kids, and with that comes a lot more stressful parenting experience. And in Australia, the rates for divorce of parents of kids with neurodivergence is estimates maybe up to 75% to 85%. So, it's incredibly high.
Pete Wright:
Well, we're going to put a pin in that. I'll let you finish your thought respect, but wow.
Leanne Tran:
Come back to that.
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah. Yep. So, oftentimes if kids are getting... Parents are fighting about things, it's usually loud and kids can hear what they're saying. And if it's about differences in how they approach looking after their child and the stress of trying to manage a child who's got lots of different needs, then kids hear those messages. And so, that saying just the view of themselves they have, but I think too, I'm thinking about when the parents might... A child knows who they are in the context of their family and that's what gives identity is those relationships.
And when the divorce happens and those things change, kids don't see themselves as from this family anymore. They see themselves as from that family originally and then now here and now there.
So, it does change how they see themselves. If parents support their kids and that goes positively, that's great. If not, then it can lead into a more negative mindset.
Pete Wright:
We talked about parental alienation before on the show. It just seems so much like it's a recipe for that divisiveness that says the kid is made up of the allegiance to the mom relationship and the allegiance to the dad relationship. And so, when the mom and dad get divorced, the kids has to split.
That's what I hear. There is a fracturing in that relationship and that's something I know, Seth, we've talked about a bunch on how parents in deeply contested divorces use that against one another, but I can totally see how that could detrimentally impact child's view of self.
Seth Nelson:
Along with that, Leanne, if I was just thinking that when Pete was describing those allegiances to the parents, I was also just thinking about the dinner routine at a house. And let's say that you have two kids and mom and dad and the routine is mom makes the meal, the kids set the table and dad does dishes, but now they're divorced and everyone has their identity. Everyone knows their role to play, right? Maybe one kid sets, the other kid clears and now they're divorced.
A kid is now being asked to wash the dishes and, "That wasn't my role. I never washed the dishes. Dad, you did." But maybe the kid, mom makes dinner and one kid sets and clears. So, is it confusing for them as their identity and what role they play in this new transition of just daily tasks and routines?
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, I imagine. I mean I think roles are a little bit different to identity, but they are what forms their identity. You're right.
Seth Nelson:
You hear that, Pete? You hear that? She said I was right.
Pete Wright:
I'm not going to like what? Put you on a pedestal now, that's what you want.
Seth Nelson:
No. You're just supposed to ring the bell. That's all you had to do.
Pete Wright:
In my head, you now in the first place, you're like three inches higher than me. That's fine.
Seth Nelson:
Keep going the end, Leanne. Sorry.
Leanne Tran:
You're looking taller already. No. You're looking tall already.
Seth Nelson:
Which is really, really hard for me to do. There's a reason we sit down when we record these podcasts.
Leanne Tran:
So, we'll leave those maybe identity issues alone. If you think about it, that dinner routine is a good example that kids, when they're used to that and that's familiar, then that becomes automatic. And so, then, they're focusing on all the other things that they're developing, maybe like friendships and independent skills and that kind of stuff.
But then, when you're reorganizing all these roles and it becomes conscious again and it's actively something kids are thinking about, then there's not so much time for focusing on other things. So, it can add an extra load to what they're already learning and developing as kids.
Pete Wright:
Part of your specialty in your practice is to work with kids that are neurodiverse. Can you walk us through your perspective on these kids dealing with the same kind of issues we've just set up living and being asked to split their life between two homes, two parents. What are the kinds of things that they're going to need to be, that the parents are going to need to be considerate of to help their kids thrive?
Leanne Tran:
Firstly, I guess the most common things I'm thinking about are ADHD and autism. With ADHD, as you might know, Pete, if you mentioned that before, it's more difficult to be organized. It's often executive functioning is a challenge for these kids, which means I explain it to parents as essentially the ability to do the task in the moment. And so, with that comes maybe a lot of forgetfulness. Forgetfulness is probably the biggest one, but disorganization, destructibility and all of that kind of stuff.
And so, then, how that affects across two homes then is that it requires an extra level of organization to be moving between two homes. And when you have a difficulty in organization, that's going to be incredibly hard for you. So, lots of things like I always recommend to parents to have doubles of everything, particularly for their kids with ADHD because that's... Yeah, it's going to be really difficult to remember what they need to bring from house to house. Do they have the homework at the right house or the assignment pieces?
Seth Nelson:
So, Leanne, on that point, as much as that is so important for the kids that you're describing is it's for all kids.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, that's right.
Seth Nelson:
I mean, literally when my son was little and his mom and I had split up when he was two and a half and now he was five or six playing soccer. And it helped that I had the finances to do this, but we would go get his soccer stuff and we would pay for an extra uniform. We would buy two sets of cleats and two bags, and inevitably I call it the great migration. Somehow I would end up with all of them at my house. And I don't know, the whole concept is that this didn't happen.
And this would be on shorts. I would say, "Why do I have 20 pairs of shorts in three t-shirts?" I'm sure every time you arrived at the house you had shorts and t-shirts on, and every time you left the house you had shorts and T-shirts on. But it gets messed up and you have to have the reorganization, but it's hard. It's hard.
Pete Wright:
But when executive functioning is broken because you're a teenager, you're already compromised just because you're a teenager and athletic clothes seem to multiply asexually anyway, so that just goes without saying. Then, you add the neurodiverse part. I mean we're talking about advocating for consistency and predictability and fighting for that as a parent as best you can. And that means, Seth, to your point, that reorganization, it's got to be a way of life. Every Friday you've got to do a reorg.
Seth Nelson:
In the end, these parents might not agree what is best for this child and think, "No, he doesn't need the little widget tool that he can play with his hands with when we're eating dinner. It's okay otherwise, but he..." And so, one parent allows it at dinner, the other parent doesn't allow it at dinner. And for that child, that is a huge issue.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, that's right. Your point about these challenges being ones that all kids face is true. So, the challenges themselves aren't that different, but in terms of executive functioning, it's estimated that kids with ADHD may be 30% behind where other kids their age are. So, it just means that they're going to have more trouble with this stuff and maybe take longer. And so, even the teenagers you mentioned then when you add on top of that teenage brain and extra 30% of difficulty, it becomes quite a lot.
I think, Seth, you made a good point. What it really comes down to is, are parents on the same page about these things or not because all kids need predictability and consistency. But if you aren't on the same page about what they need to support ADHD and autism, then that's where the challenges will really happen, especially if you're trying to not just decide for the sake of it that you'll meet in the middle somewhere and follow a consistent plan even if you don't quite believe in the diagnosis.
Pete Wright:
Can we dive in just a little bit more detail on the autism situation? Because I know that there are sensory issues with ADHD, that come with ADHD depending on where you are on the spectrum. I know that with autism, that sensory experience, it can be magnified depending on again, where you are on the spectrum. And I'm wondering how you work with parents to communicate that that has to be accounted for twice.
And the role of, again, that consistency and stability in two different homes so that every time you deal with a time-sharing swap, you're not dealing with a potential sensory meltdown.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah. It's a big conversation because with autism, there's two main parts to the disability. The first part is social communication, and the second part is behavior. So, either different behavior, which includes that sensory processing, but the other part is it's called restricted behavior, and what it really means is needing things to... I guess in summary, it means not being flexible with a lot of things, which means that need for sameness and routine and difficulty with transition, which is a change from one thing to the other.
And all of those things are inherent in the change between two households. So, we talk a lot about how it's really important to understand the sensory needs for one and make sure that those are catered for in both homes, but also to think about keeping the routine the same across both homes and trying to help, particularly with the transition as well between one to the other. It's quite common for kids to be upset after a transition or just bit dysregulated. And for autistic kids, that can be a bigger response. So, maybe a couple of days they're really out of sorts.
Seth Nelson:
So, Leanne on that, the general thought process with non-neurodivergent kids is when they're younger, you tend to do what we call a two to three schedule where they're with mom for two days, with dad for two overnights, with mom for the weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, then with dad for two days and mom. So, a lot of back and forth. Let's say kids are younger, they need more constant contact as opposed to week on, week off.
With the change issue with neurodivergent kids is the default no matter whatever the age is to be week on, week off. So, they have some change. Let's say the exchange happens on a Friday, they have the weekend to get to this new routine. We try to make it as consistent as possible. Maybe we have the same mattress, maybe we have the same sheets, maybe we have the same pillow, the same silverware, the same plates and cups, the same soaps.
I mean all these things, but there's still a change and therefore maybe they have a better school week because by the time Monday rolls around, we've transitioned. Is that something that parents of neurodivergent kids should be considering?
Leanne Tran:
It is what I see a lot. I don't know whether it's just a difference in Australia as to how we typically do things, but I think definitely once kids are at school, it is more along the lines of what I see. Yeah. Or in some situations depending on a parent's work, and I'm thinking it's typically father's work is maybe shift work or something, then they may be with dads on the weekend or that parent on the weekend and the other parent for the school week. So, that, that routine can be consistent.
Pete Wright:
Man, I can't imagine a two to three with a young kid. That seems so disruptive to me, especially when you talk about a kid who takes two days to adjust to any particular transition.
Seth Nelson:
It's constantly adjusting.
Pete Wright:
Constantly adjusting. How do you ever find any sense of regulation out of dysregulation?
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, that's what makes it really hard because like we were talking before, when you're trying to adjust, that's what your mind's focusing on. And when we're regulated is when all the learning happens and the growth and development. So, if kids are constantly in that stress state or that adjustment state, it can really affect their development and learning.
Pete Wright:
Let's talk about siblings. Siblings of neurodivergent kids. What is the impact on the sibling in a situation like this?
Leanne Tran:
It varies a lot. But I guess it varies from being potentially an experience for the sibling of being relied on to handle things and cope because parents are almost inadvertently saying, "I really need all my focus to be over here, so I need you to be okay." So, they feel this pressure to just handle everything and be okay. Or on the other extreme, maybe they are seen as someone who might be able to help the child, and that puts a lot of pressure on as well. So, if it's helping them at school, look after your little brother and that kind of thing, that can put a lot of pressure on siblings as well.
And then there's a whole spectrum in between. But I think it's worthwhile not underestimating the impact it can have because parenting a child with additional needs takes up more time. So, unless you intentionally think about how it's affecting the sibling and what you can do to counteract any negative impacts their needs will go unseen in the complicated family life.
Pete Wright:
I feel like I'm just trying to think about all the other stakeholders who exist. We've got siblings, we've got the parents. We are transitioning now into an era where maybe the one parent brings in a new partner for a neurodiverse kid. How do you talk about the new partner in a relationship where parents are trying to co-parent across two homes with a neurodiverse kiddo?
Leanne Tran:
It's probably not that different to how you would do things with a neurotypical kid, except that your communication would be more intentional and maybe you would take smaller steps to do it. So, yeah, maybe it actually is different. As I'm talking out loud.
Seth Nelson:
It's very similar except for the-
Pete Wright:
Accepting the way it's not.
Seth Nelson:
Except for the 99 points I'm about to make. And Pete, please let Andy know we're going to extend this podcast.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, we'll 24 hours.
Pete Wright:
We'll see you tomorrow.
Seth Nelson:
Well, we're going to catch up with her because she's on Australian time, so we've got 12 hours to do this, Pete.
Pete Wright:
No, that's right. That's right. We'll be fine.
Leanne Tran:
That's right. Yeah. I think that maybe this is a better way to say it. The principles are the same, but the communication needs to be a little bit clearer and the steps would maybe go slower. So, maybe introducing the person first and spending time together, getting to know each other a little bit, and then gradually extending that a little bit and then talking about intentionally and explicitly talking about what changes to the routine might happen with this person joining the family, and so that kids can incorporate that into their understanding of the routine.
Pete Wright:
I think about the experience of being neurodiverse in just the little ways that I am. And I think about what it means to be empathetic to new emotional stimuli. And I imagine that a kiddo is going to be living that experience writ large, that they're going to be a raw nerve to the consistency and stability, sensory stability that they had watching one intimate relationship in their parents and being introduced to another intimate relationship and having to feel their way through that. And not being able to regulate is a massive challenge.
Leanne Tran:
All at the same time that they are developing their own relationship with that person. Because even if they're saying, "No, I don't want to get to know you or anything," it's by the fact that they're in your life, you have a relationship with them. So, yeah, the kids are trying to do that at the same time.
Seth Nelson:
Seems like a lot to put on a kid.
Pete Wright:
God, I'm glad I'm not a kid anymore. You guys, how hard must it be?
Seth Nelson:
And now you add social media and they're carrying around their phones and there's a lot of ways our lives were easier way back when.
Pete Wright:
Oh, for sure. And I think in some respects, Seth too, the tools we have to deal with it are more robust, and that requires a lesson in and of itself. And so, Leanne, maybe you could talk through your recommendation for parents dealing with the universe of therapeutic options. What role do you count on for a therapist and for other supports in the divorce process to help the parents and the kids? Do you have a curriculum?
Leanne Tran:
Kind of, but it's very individual because kids are all different. There's probably two parts to it. And the first part is how parents can get on the same page. And then, the second part is how professionals can help. And the first bit really needs to happen first, I think, because if parents aren't on the same page about the plan for their children, then it's very difficult for other professionals to help.
So, a big example about that is with ADHD. It's often the first line intervention is medication, and that's something that parents really commonly disagree about. And so-
Seth Nelson:
No, come on. That never happens.
Leanne Tran:
It always happens.
Pete Wright:
Lunacy.
Leanne Tran:
That's the first thing. But then, also if it's a plan about does the child need a psychologist, do they. And it's usually about how parents see the needs. One will say, "Look, they need all this help." And one will say, "They're fine.
You are overreacting." And unless they can somehow end up on the same page, it makes it really difficult for people like pediatricians or psychologists to actually enact a plan because the follow-through on the other side is just really different. But then, in terms of how we can help, I'm a psychologist, so I guess I'll talk about my role, and it's often about helping develop kid's skills so that they can handle these things in life better. But it's also about teaching parents' ways that they can adapt what they're doing to help their kids.
Seth Nelson:
And that's the hardest for a parent to tell a parent like, "Oh, you got to do something different. Your kid will respond differently."
Leanne Tran:
It is, but the thing is, it's the fastest way to change because we've already talked about how much load these kids are under, but then to expect them also to be able to develop some coping skills when their brains aren't fully formed yet is a big ask. And if you have ever tried to change a habit as an adult, you'll recognize how hard it is to change how you do things. And that's for us with fully formed brains and maturity.
Seth Nelson:
Some of us.
Pete Wright:
Some of us.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah. Well, I do. I don't know about you two. I'm just kidding. So, it is the fastest way. So, it's really got to be about two things, the kids learning skills, but then how are you doing things differently at home?
But it's also if we're teaching kids skills, that's an hour a week with a psychologist at the most, I would say, and then they've got all of the rest of their time with their family. And so, if you are not encouraging them of-
Seth Nelson:
Practicing and reinforcing.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, that's right. Then they're getting a little message from me about what to do. But lots of messages from you about different ways to do it, and it's really hard to get any movement.
Pete Wright:
This is fascinating. And I have to say, Seth, I feel like I have already seen some wheels turning on just how you think about some of these relationships. From the legal perspective, what are you hearing? Do you hear ways you might be rethinking how you handle a parenting plan in certain cases?
Seth Nelson:
The direct answer is yes. The more nuanced answer is how to get people on the same page on a parenting plan when frankly we're in mediation and they're also negotiating alimony and who's going to get the house. Some of the nuances that are so important in kids on routine and being on the same page don't seem that important when you're like, "What house are they going to live in? How am I going to pay the mortgage?" These other stressors take priority in the moment, even though in reality it should be reversed because you can live in house A or house B sell and get a different house, smaller as long as it's in the same school district. There's a lot of choices on houses.
But every day that you have with your kid and you have that time and Leanne spent an hour with them on Tuesday at 3:00, and now you've got to parent the other times, you're going to be parenting no matter what house you live in.
Pete Wright:
I just have to say, I'm reading this book, and it doesn't even matter what it's called, but there is a concept in there called priority dilution. Have you ever heard of this concept?
Seth Nelson:
I have not.
Pete Wright:
Okay. So, the concept, it's basically like this. Say you have a drink that you love, whatever drink it is, and you slowly start pouring water into it eventually and how long depends on the drink, the more water you put in, the less and less it tastes like your drink, right? Everything becomes bland. If you are confronted with a whole lot of super urgent, high priority things, eventually none of them are high priority anymore because they dilute themselves. And the major outcome of this is you'll forget what the difference between urgent and important.
And you just described that for me, Seth, people are... When moods are heightened, they forget that all of the questions that are presented to them as urgent might not be the important questions. The urgent things are like, who's going to sign on the line to split the house? The important thing is, "What's going to happen to my relationship with my neurodivergent son if I play this wrong?
If I play this in a way that..." that's the long-term thing. And I feel like that conceit is something I've really been thinking a lot about, especially in the context of divorce.
Seth Nelson:
And when that happens, what I've noticed is we deal with the urgent, like you're saying, and maybe some of that is also important. But in the emotional stressors that the divorce process brings, once you solve one problem that maybe isn't important and urgent. Let's just say that they have them lined up properly in quotes properly, we solve the problem and we do the next problem.
And then, now we're down to stuff that's really not that important, but they're just going to die on that hill. And I go back to them. And I said, "What were your goals? What were you trying to achieve during this process? And I said, "Give me your top three then bracket it four, five, six, and now we're arguing about number 12.
Let's be done. You can call it moving the goalpost and calling it a win if there's any such thing, which I don't believe there is in family court, but let's be done." And what happens is they keep... Now that's in my rearview, this is the next important thing. Now this is really important and it moves up the ladder.
Leanne Tran:
From a psychology perspective, I talk with kids a lot about how when we're really upset, some research studies have showed that our IQ... We operate at an IQ level. That's half of what we normally have.
Seth Nelson:
And Pete, when you're mad, you're still a genius.
Pete Wright:
That was weirdly a compliment and a slam. That was great. A nice compliment.
Seth Nelson:
Thank you. Appreciate that.
Leanne Tran:
That's right. Half of a very high number is still high. But I think that when you were talking, Seth, that reminds me of that, that we're not as rational, when we're really upset. And so, that can feed into our decision making and maybe deciding whether things are urgent or important. But also, you probably have heard about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, how the bottom ones are safety and shelter.
And so, that makes sense that parents going to that primal mode of thinking, "Okay, we need a roof over our heads," and that kind of thing. And you can't really focus on those higher-level things unless you've got those bottom one secured.
Seth Nelson:
But with all the hurricanes coming through, roof over our heads, in Florida is a luxury these days.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah, you've had but two?
Pete Wright:
I don't even live there. And all I can tell you is too soon, man. It's too soon.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Too soon.
Pete Wright:
This season.
Seth Nelson:
Too soon. Okay. We'll have Andy cut it. He'll put it on the top. Thanks, Andy.
Pete Wright:
He'll put it on the top.
Seth Nelson:
Leanne, first off, I got to tell you, you're very impressive. But we should also let people know you're very impressive at 7:00 AM because that's what time it is when we're recording this in Australia.
Pete Wright:
So, so grateful for you to do this for this, Leanne. Thank you.
Leanne Tran:
Oh, you're welcome. Thanks so much for having me. It's so great to be able to share this kind of information for parents.
Pete Wright:
Where would you like people... We'll put links to everything. We mentioned the podcast Parent Like a Psychologist. We'll put your website in the show notes. Anyplace else specifically you'd like to send people to learn more about you and your work?
Leanne Tran:
I think the website is a great place for which is leannetran.com.au, if parents are looking for that one-on-one work or courses that I offer for parents to learn all of this stuff about understanding their child.
Otherwise, the podcast and which pushes out to then YouTube and there's some parts on Instagram as well, give free information for parents on lots of different topics. So, yeah, that's where I would go.
Pete Wright:
I've been listening to your ADHD episodes all afternoon, so thank you for those resources. For sure.
Leanne Tran:
Yeah. You're welcome.
Pete Wright:
Yes. Leanne, this has been great. Sure, appreciate you for hanging out with us and bringing this subject to our listeners. And thank you everybody for downloading and listening to this show.
We appreciate your time and attention. On behalf of Leanne Tran, from Down Under and Seth Nelson America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright. And we'll see you next time right here on How to Split a Toaster, A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships.
Outro:
How to Split A Toaster is part of the True Story FM Podcast Network, produced by Andy Nelson, music by T. Bless and the Professionals and DB Studios. Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law, with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different.
If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
