Tired of Darkness: Life After Divorce with Chidima Anusiem
What happens to your life after divorce? Author Chidima Anusiem, or “Author Chi”, joins us this week to talk about the transition. From social rebuilding to emotional health, her work as a divorce coach working with other divorced women offers a unique perspective on transitioning from the legal constraints to the practical realities of life after divorce.
We learn about her 7-step divorce coaching program: From Divorce to Diamonds, and her work as a woman’s empowerment speaker as she shares her passion for rebuilding and empowering women in their journey to discover power and purpose.
About Chidima Anusiem
Chidima Anusiem — also known as "Author Chi" — resides in Atlanta, GA, and works as a Life After Divorce coach. Her transformational 7-Step Divorce Coaching Program, “From Divorce to Diamonds” helps women gain freedom from the pain of broken relationships, regain self in a way that does not require validation from others, and position their hearts to love and receive love again. Chidima is also a Women’s Empowerment Speaker, uplifting the whole woman emotionally, mentally, and spiritually. Her passion for rebuilding and empowering women motivated her to share her personal story of the pain in her own divorce in her best-selling book From Glass to Stone: 10 Transformational Stories of Resilience.
Episode Transcript
Pete:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from TruStory FM. Today, let's help you find your toaster its power.
Seth:
Welcome to the show everybody, I'm Seth Nelson. I'm here as always with my good friend, Pete Wright. Today on the show, what happens to your life after divorce? We've got the answer as we talk to Author Chi and her seven step divorce coaching in program, from Divorce to Diamonds. She's a woman's empowerment speaker with a passion for rebuilding and empowering women in their journey to discover power and purpose. Author Chi, welcome to the toaster.
Author Chi:
Thank you so much for having me.
Pete:
The whole context that I am most interested in, in this conversation is you've been through the legal process, you've been dealing with Seth forever and now, you step out.
Seth:
Sorry.
Pete:
Of his office and that door closes behind you and you hear that satisfying seal that says maybe you don't have to hang out with Seth every day and now.
Seth:
Just for the record, the Florida bar requires me to say this, Pete, Author Chi was not a client of mine. We are not discussing attorney client privilege. He was referring to me as the stereotypical short Jewish bald lawyer. Let's just keep going.
Pete:
Okay. All right. Check your jurisdictions. Okay, here we go. Now we're talking about building and in the context of, and we try, I should say, we try on this show not to have exceptionally gendered discussions about divorce because it impacts men and women in different ways but it's impactful. But today you are here because of your expertise in working with women on this rebuilding process and I would like to know how you got there.
Author Chi:
Yeah, absolutely. Well honestly, I got there because I was there before. I experienced divorce myself and yes, dealing with the Seths of the world, I thought that once I finished the legal process, I was done and life was going to just automatically get better over time after divorce. That was far from the truth. There was a lot of emotional unpacking, financial unpacking, parenting, suddenly being a single parent. There was a lot of unpacking to do and I didn't really know where to start. And so I promised myself one thing, when I figure this out, I'm going to go back and teach someone else because it was a hard road ahead of me. That's what birthed the seven step from Divorce to Diamonds program.
Pete:
I just want to say, Seth, you got air quoted just now by Chi. You got air quoted.
Author Chi:
I know.
Pete:
That's the most satisfying thing I've experienced yet today.
Author Chi:
Let me tell you.
Pete:
Thank you for that Chi, that was awesome.
Seth:
I wish I could get a plaque with it on it, in the wall. Take down the law school diploma and federal clerkship.
Pete:
Now you've arrived.
Seth:
Air quoted by Author Chi.
Pete:
Nice.
Author Chi:
I wouldn't be this far without you, Seth, I'm sure. I definitely see value in what I've experienced as far as the legal aspect of it, but yes, it's the unpacking afterwards.
Pete:
Yeah. Talk more about where you were. Because in terms of our experience, as for crying out loud, our lives all serve as warnings to others in some capacity or another. Talk a little bit more about where you were when you came out of your divorce process.
Author Chi:
I was actually a regional manager for a major financial institution. I have 80 something employees. I am doing my thing, I'm working hard and to suddenly fall into this place where I'm immediately a single parent, I now have one income as opposed to two, the home that me and my husband were building together, we had to cancel this contract and now I'm sleeping on my sister's bedroom floor because I have nowhere to stay. You're talking about someone that had a very successful life and now finding my self at rock bottom, not really understanding what. I've never been here before but I knew if this is the lowest that I've ever been, then I know this is the lowest I'll ever be. And I was determined to dig myself out of that hole, of self doubt and depression and all of that. And I said, "I'm going to be better from this and not bitter. I'm not going to let this thing kill me." And that was kind of the beginning of me walking through this myself, through the process that I now teach.
Seth:
Let me tell you, the worst part of that story, self doubt, depression, canceling a contract, is sleep being on the floor at your sister's place, man. She must hang that over your head forever. I think I would've just slept outside as go to my brother's place and sleep on the floor.
Author Chi:
Yeah. And I had a three month old at the time. You can imagine.
Pete:
Oh my goodness.
Seth:
Oh my God.
Pete:
That's hard. That's rough.
Author Chi:
It was rough. It was rough.
Seth:
I would not want to give that arrow to my brother because he would use it all the time. Good for you.
Author Chi:
No, she was kind to me. She was kind to me.
Pete:
You know those Nelson boys, unparalleled. I think that's really important. You're thinking about how you rebuild that self doubt, that depression, the experience of uncertainty as you have to figure out what those pieces look like in your life before you can start putting them in some form to who you are. And one of the pieces I'm most interested in is what is the turning point when you make the decision to change? Maybe I've told this story on the podcast. I am trying to lose weight. Big guy and I was complaining about my ankles, my knees hurt, my blood pressure. I'm a medical emergency just walking around. And my best friend looks at me and he says, "Hey, that's really awesome." And I said, "What are you talking about, man? Why is that? You are the least helpful individual in my life." And he says, "Well, that means at any point you could say, I'm finished right now. I'm never going to be heavier than I am right now and you could start something new."
Pete:
Well to me, that was a transformational experience. That was an experience that stuck in my head and I am wondering if there is a parallel experience in discovering that you have the opportunity to choose different after your divorce.
Author Chi:
I got tired of darkness. Some people get really comfortable in darkness. I got tired of being there. I got tired of experiencing the pain or the lack of being able to feel like there's a future ahead of me. You know how you hear that phrase, you get just get sick and tired of being sick and tired?
Pete:
A 100%.
Author Chi:
It was one of those moments where I'm just like, you know what? No. And changing your life is just a decision. It's just one decision to say, "You know what? I don't want to do this anymore." It's just that simple. Obviously the actions after that decision, that is the work but just a simple thought will begin to then shift your life in some dramatic ways and that's basically what I had to do and now what I teach. One of the things that I share with my clients is making sure that you, first of all, acknowledge that I'm in a bad situation right now. Own it, be truthful about it and then allow yourself to feel all of those emotions and things that you've experienced, validate them because their truth to you in that moment. And then begin to replace those thoughts and that negativity with new thoughts, new vision. Where do you want to go? Not where you are, but where are you headed?
Author Chi:
It's kind of that cognitive behavior therapy that you do for yourself where you just begin to renew your mind if you will. Don't get stuck in the motions and the thoughts that bombard your mind but begin to what I call the refill is that you release it, you realize it and then you refill. Refill with new thoughts, refill with new vision.
Pete:
That's fascinating. I look at that, Seth. We talk about coming out of divorce and the hardships coming out of divorce, these perseverative thoughts. You end up thinking that and these thoughts that feed themselves thinking about this is as bad as it's going to get. I guess the only thing I can think about is this is as bad as it's going to get. It's a snake eating its tail and breaking that. How do you go about breaking that cycle?
Seth:
I think it is fascinating. And here's something I hear a lot from clients when they're still going through it or people who have been divorced, they're back in my office because they're having issues with their former spouse and they say something like, "I'm never getting married again. There's no good guys out there. There's just no good guy." And there's this mantra. And the guys are like, "All women are crazy. There's no way. I'm not doing it again." Pete, as you know, before the show Author Chi says, "You can't stump me with a question," and I'm going to try now.
Pete:
I live for this. I live for this.
Author Chi:
I'm here for it.
Seth:
Yeah. Because air quotes, I'm fighting back. At what point if at all, when you're in the rebuilding of yourself where you have to take care of yourself, can you say, "I'm going to open myself up for hurt again, I'm going to open myself up for a relationship again. Maybe all guys aren't so bad." We all have a certain level of crazy but at what point do you change the mindset of, I'm never getting married again. There are no good guys out there. I'm going to give it a go. And how do I meet him? I'm tired of swiping right and left.
Author Chi:
Yeah. When I hear that, I hear hurt. You still haven't fully healed. It's similar to being a really bad car accident, you broke several bones and just the thought of getting back in a car just terrifies you. But one thing about preparing yourself for love again is that there's really no way around getting back in the car. Love is a risk. But one thing that we have to do to overcome that fear and all of that stuff, all the trigger is to get back out again. And when you get back out again, you get back out again with a different perspective. Not that what if this doesn't work but what if it does? That's the difference. And the what if it doesn't is still the pain and everything that you experienced still digging into your soul and a lot of things.
Author Chi:
Well, the advice that I typically give in that area is make sure you go to therapy first before you start dating. Make sure you make peace with all of those demons and all of those things that you experience so that you don't go back and start those same negative patterns of broken relationship after broken relationship. When you have a therapy and you heal properly, you can see clearly to choose correctly. And I should have said that again, a little slower for the viewers. But when you heal correctly, you can choose correctly. But getting back out there, getting back in that car, going slow, taking your time, asking the necessary questions but making sure that you go to therapy first to deal with those triggers and deal with that pain before you open yourself back up to love again. Did I answer that correctly, Seth?
Seth:
Oh, I'm not going to stump you. I was thinking halfway through, I'm on the edge of my seat. I'm leaning in and I'm like, yeah, no, we're not stumping her today, but we're going to give our listeners a lot of good information and I'm going to thank you ahead of time for that because I couldn't agree with you more. And I think that choosing correctly, don't go date that same guy that you just split up with.
Pete:
Oh right.
Seth:
Don't go.
Pete:
Yeah, isn't that red flag number one?
Author Chi:
Yeah. And I actually have an exercise that I'll call breaking relationship patterns. You literally can map out your last three relationships. What worked? What didn't work? What were the red flags that you saw? What were the characteristics of the person? Where did you meet them? Who ended the relationship? It has a series of questions so you can start identifying patterns. And a lot of my clients found wow, I'm dating the same guy with a different face. Now I've identified that there's a pattern in how I'm choosing. Now this is powerful because now you have an opportunity to create your avatar, your partner all over again and saying, "You know what? Instead of this, let me try this." And that's where we kind of get out of what we call preferences, which sometimes can be a prison for us and we begin to expand our territory and our boundaries to explore different types of people. And that way we open ourselves to different types of experiences and outcomes. I did want to share that.
Seth:
That sounds like a nightmare for me to do.
Author Chi:
It's not. It's so easy, I promise.
Pete:
Well, it really highlights though the difference between this sort of rehabilitative process between men and women again. And so I will introduce the gender topic because I think what you just said is right on the experience with the women that I know who have sort of been rehabilitating after divorce. I have a very dear friend, a man who was divorced. It was a rough divorce and he came out of it and said, "I'm never going to marry again. I'm so done." It was just really traumatic. I'm not going to date. I don't need to date. I've got two kids. We're fine. It's just fine. And friends and family come to him and they say, "You just do a little therapy, just go talk to somebody and maybe you'll learn. Maybe you'll learn that there is room in your heart for someone else."
Pete:
And, "Ah, I don't need it. I don't need it." Eventually, I don't know which way you swipe to actually go with somebody, but he did. He swiped that direction and he ended up going on a date with somebody and the next morning he calls and he says, "Yeah, we had a pretty good date." "You did? What'd you do?" "Well, we had sex." I said, "Really?" He said, "I think I could learn to love again." He immediately started therapy to figure out how to do. You never know what the trigger's going to be. You never know.
Author Chi:
Yeah. No, I agree with that.
Pete:
But honestly, maybe a little predictable.
Seth:
I'm really worried about the people you hang out with, brother.
Pete:
I hang out with the best people, the best people. I could learn to love again. That is as optimistic a thing as I've ever heard.
Author Chi:
And that's the message though. That's the message is that I know how dire it looks and I was so hurt but you will love again. Love will come back around. I think that's the hope that I want to share with the viewers that are listening that's in this situation. I didn't think that I would be able to love again. I was surprised when I fell in love again after the divorce and it felt amazing. It felt amazing. And so give yourself that opportunity to experience love again. Just because it didn't work the first time doesn't mean it won't work the next time and I think that's the main message here.
Pete:
I'm going to put a verb to this but I'm not using it the way I think Seth is going to hear me say it. Do you as a human being love differently now that you've been through divorce?
Author Chi:
I do. I love differently in that I've learned how to set boundaries. I've learned what I need versus what I thought I wanted. And I think the boundaries thing for me is the biggest thing because a lot of the women that I coach, especially that have been abusive relationships, a lot of the reasons why they found themselves in a relationship because they had really poor boundaries. They didn't stand up for themselves and say, "Hey," especially if they're with a partner that's very controlling, say, "Hey, I won't be able to do that today." Or, "I won't be able to pick up your phone call every time you call me or meet you anytime you want to see me." Being able to set those boundaries so their partner understands, oh, she's still a person. I can't control her. She still has an identity separate from mine.
Author Chi:
And so I had to learn, if I'm going to do this again, I have to be able to let my future partner know what I will and won't tolerate. And if they can't adhere to those boundaries, they're not for me. And I was so afraid to push people away. I was a people pleaser. I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings but the person that hurt at the end was me, by not having those proper boundaries and properly guarding my heart. That's what I did learn.
Seth:
I think that boundary aspect is so important and it's on such little things that it's really like you said, no, I am not. If your expectation of me is to answer your phone call every time you call, that's not going to happen. And what I've learned, Pete, to answer your question directly, do I love differently? And what is that like? I understand that anything that I'm asking for or communications that I'm having, it's just a request. I just have a request. I might not always say it such as a request.
Seth:
This happened last night. I was exhausted after work. Out of the blue, my girlfriend and her son were going to pop by my place and literally pick up poke bowls and I'm getting a text, "What do you want?" And I just said, "Whatever you're having," I did not want to make another decision. And especially, I didn't want to go through, oh, I want cauliflower rice and this protein and this. There's too many decisions there. Just whatever you're having. My girlfriend's being very sweet and she calls and says, "Well, what kind of sauce do you want?" And I'm exhausted and I was like, "I don't care. I said whatever you are having." And she's like, "Well, I'm just saying." "Babe, I can't make another decision. I'm at the end of my rope." And she goes, "Well then don't answer my call."
Pete:
But that's the interesting thing about all this and it's cognitive dissonance.
Seth:
Exactly. And so she comes in and I apologize for being short with her on the phone and it was sweet what she was doing. And I said, "It's just a trigger. I'm tired and I'm thinking, well, now you're not listening to what I'm saying. I already gave you this answer. Why are you asking me this again?" But it's those types of little things that then, when I'm get adding some food in my system and she comes in laughing at me because she knows it was a trigger, that we can communicate about it differently and it doesn't turn into a thing. And I just did air quotes because it just seems like so much fun. You know? But Chi, is that a good example of something little on setting boundaries and then if you kind of screw it up, how to talk through it?
Author Chi:
Absolutely. And that's why I gave those examples because they are little but it's those little boundaries that then if you don't set them, create bigger problems because then you'll have bigger boundaries that your partner will continue to cross. And so I think it's important to just especially in the dating phase, which I spent a lot of time teaching on is understanding what that looks like. Even physical touch, even time, even your things, your items, taking your car and what are the rules that you have around all those areas before you start dating so you can make sure your future partner understands what those are and can adhere to them. Because when you get into a longterm, serious relationship, you want to have already been able to establish how to communicate things that make you uncomfortable or things that take away from you because a relationship should be adding to you and not make bringing out the worst version of you.
Seth:
Isn't the reverse true though? You also need to be able to communicate what works for you.
Author Chi:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's a really good point.
Pete:
And that's I think coming out of divorce, that's got to be really hard. That's another skill to learn that we all have to adapt to learn, to remind our partner or our friends, this is what works for me.
Author Chi:
No, I think that's huge. I think that's huge. I think it's both ways, it's being able to create that balance of what I enjoy and what doesn't work and what are some things that I'm flexible on. It's not that some of these boundaries are just completely inflexible but what are some things that I'm willing, compromise on as well?
Pete:
Well and that's what I was going to get to, the cognitive dissonance part that I think is so fascinating about this, which is that when you're coming out of a divorce, out of a marriage where maybe boundaries were not clearly established.
Author Chi:
Or respected, even if they were.
Pete:
Or respected, yeah, right, right, right. That establishing boundaries, learning the skill to establish boundaries might seem like a thing that would bring distance between two partners and that's the opposite is actually true. A clear set of boundaries can make the relationship better. Is that a fair statement?
Author Chi:
Absolutely. It is because a boundary is not a wall and I think some people get that confused. It's not like you're completely shutting that person out. A boundary is it's just a guideline. It's just a guideline. And so if it's properly followed, I think it's a foundation for a very, very healthy relationship. I agree.
Pete:
You want to tell us a little bit about Divorce to Diamonds?
Author Chi:
I do. I do.
Seth:
I was wondering. Boy, I knew you were going.
Pete:
When are we going to get to that?
Seth:
I was waiting. I was waiting.
Author Chi:
I'm so excited. It launches in January. I have versions of it that I piloted over the last 12 months, but I said, you know what? I took six months off and just revamped the whole entire program. I'm really excited about from Divorce to Diamonds and basically where that name came from is that when you look at how a diamond is formed, going through all of the pressure, the heat, the eruption and the digging and all that is very similar to the healing process that especially as women that we go through. That eruption, all of the emotions like anger and regret and depression that we have to get out of you. And then we got to start chiseling things away like unforgiveness and all of those type of things. We have to rebuild you, polish you up and rebuild your confidence.
Author Chi:
Those are some of the things that we tackle in the program, including how to receive other forms of love and how to not always feel like a romantic relationship validates you only. There's other forms of love that validates you as a person, including the love that you have for yourself. We teach you how to kind of be content with where you are right now. Not saying that love will never show up again but what can you do in the meantime, just enjoying your own company? Just things like that to really give you the tools to start the healing journey because it is a process. This seven step program is not going to heal you overnight but as you gradually heal, it'll give you the proper tools to heal properly. It's like you break a bone, you have to set that bone. You put the cast on it for it to heal. That's basically what we're doing is we're just setting that bone, getting you ready for your healing journey so you can heal properly.
Seth:
I'm in.
Pete:
I know. Do you take the likes of us? Would we rock the boat too much? Because clearly I think.
Author Chi:
I love you guys.
Pete:
With anything was discovered here is that we could use a little help.
Author Chi:
I'm here to help. I'm here to help.
Pete:
You also, you wrote this book.
Author Chi:
I did.
Pete:
From Glass to Stone: Ten Transformational Stories of Resilience. People should check that out as well. Anything else you want to plug for us? Anything else you want to share?
Author Chi:
Well, no. Just a little bit about the book. It's just basically sharing my personal journey of divorce and how I was able to rebuild my life to kind of then becoming this divorce coach. Who would've thought? Who would've thought that pain can birth purpose?
Seth:
Wait a minute, wait a minute. When you were grow up and they say, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" You didn't say, "A divorce coach."
Author Chi:
I did not.
Pete:
Would that be amazing though?
Author Chi:
I wanted to be a fashion designer.
Pete:
A fashion designer. That's not anywhere near where you are right now.
Author Chi:
I was a designer for 10 years.
Pete:
Oh my goodness.
Author Chi:
I thought this is going to be my life and life threw me a curve ball like nobody's business.
Pete:
Because I imagine if you were about to cement your relationship with your former spouse and they said, "Why do you want to get married?" So that I can get divorced and have the experience to be a divorce coach is not the right answer.
Author Chi:
Well, you know what? My program is also faith based so I do believe everything happens for a reason. I do believe all things work together for the good of those that love the Lord. And I feel like again, with those individuals that you mentioned earlier that says, "I'm never getting married again." I'm like, "Well, what did you learn? What did you learn?" And if you regretted going through that experience, then you are also saying, "I regret everything I learned too. I willing to forfeit all the lessons, the children, everything that you gained from that, you're throwing all of that away. Are you willing to do that?" Lean into what this experience is supposed to teach you? What change is it forcing you to make? And if you look at it from that perspective, it'll take that edge off of your experience. And you can tap into the place that I found, where I found purpose. I'm like, whoa, this is a whole different world I didn't know existed. And if I stayed buried in my pain, I wouldn't be helping the hundreds of women that I'm helping today.
Pete:
That's beautiful. That's beautiful. We could learn a little something, Seth.
Seth:
All right, I got one more question I'm going to try and stump her.
Pete:
Let's do it.
Author Chi:
Please be nice.
Seth:
I'm going to give one more. I'm going to give another shot. What would you say to the guys that are dating someone who's been divorced and has a child? What advice would you give to them?
Author Chi:
Be patient.
Seth:
There you go.
Author Chi:
Be patient. Be patient because with divorcees.
Seth:
Because that's on the top of every guy's list. Oh, I'm a patient guy.
Author Chi:
Most guys that I meet are pretty patient. Women, we can be a little edgy sometimes but you guys has help balance us and calm us down. I would say, be patient. Divorcees come with a lot of history. And they may not get it right the first time. But a lot of divorcees I know they really do want to get it right this time. They don't want to experience that again and so they're going to work really hard, especially if they did their heart work first, not the ones that are still hurting but the ones that truly did their heart work to get rid of all the triggers and all of the pain from their past, be patient with them. And I believe divorcees can make some really good spouses with the right support system in place.
Seth:
Okay. That's what my girlfriend says. She's like, "You should always date someone that's been divorced because then they've learned their stuff. They got it all out of their system. They went to therapy. The fact that you're dating a guy that's never been married, you're crazy."
Pete:
That's right.
Author Chi:
And they're not leaving you. I tell, I'm like listen, if you ever think you're going to leave me, I'm going to ask you, where are you going? Because I'm coming with you. I'm doing this again. It's this determination now. I'm not living through this twice so you're packing your bag, we're going together. It's this fight. It's this fight and this passion that you have now. Now you have perspective.
Seth:
And you see that? At the beginning of the show, Chi was talking about unpacking all this stuff and now she's talking about packing again.
Pete:
She's talking about packing it up.
Author Chi:
I'm packing.
Pete:
We're packing it up. Always go for the divorced guys because they've already played AAA ball. They know how to play the big leagues now.
Seth:
That's right.
Pete:
That's all right.
Author Chi:
Yes. I agree.
Seth:
Well Chi, I got to tell you, that curve ball that life threw you, you've hit it out of the park.
Author Chi:
Thank you.
Seth:
You've just crushed it and we can't thank you enough for joining us on the Toaster.
Author Chi:
Thank you for having me. You guys are a lot of fun.
Pete:
You could find out more about Chi at authorchi.com. That's A-U-T-H-O-R-C-H-I.com. And this show is going to drop right at the end of November, first week of December and by then, you'll only have a month to get ready for the Divorce to Diamonds new version coming out in January. Very excited to have you here, Chi. Thank you so much for being a part of this. On behalf of Author Chi and America's favorite divorce attorney, Seth Nelson, check your local jurisdictions. I'm Pete Wright and we'll see you back here next week, right here on and How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
Speaker 4:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Koster Family Law and Mediation with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Koster. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
