Surviving Your Last Marriage’s Half-Life with Brittany Bliss & Reid Givens from Brittany and the Blisstones
Brittany Bliss and Reid Givens each had been married for 19 years to other people before divorcing them. While figuring their new lives out, they met each other and fell in love. Now, almost five years later, they not only are about to get married but also have started a band together. In today’s episode, Brittany and Reid talk with Seth and Pete about lessons learned along the way and how they’re making it work.
They talk about their previous marriages, why they didn’t work, and the divorces. How did that shift what they knew they’d have to do in future relationships? Brittany and Reid share their meet-cute, which is truly adorable. But how challenging is it to not bring you previous marriage’s issues into your new relationship? There’s a lot to learn, and we hear them talk about the the half-life of their previous marriages and how to navigate those elements in their new life together. As Reid says, “Any part of it can bleed into all the rest of it.” How true, how true.
There’s also talk about the magic of pre-defined phrases to use when working through issues. We’ve all heard of safe words. Yeah, that’s essentially what we’re talking about. But, you know, for talking about gripes, issues, irritants and more.
It’s a great conversation about the ups and downs of marriage, divorce, and reconnecting. We haven’t had a couple on before, and we couldn’t have asked for a better pair to be the first. Join us!
Links & Notes
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Outro:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships from TruStory FM. Today, your toaster is post divorce and still rocking.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show, everyone. I'm Seth Nelson. I'm here with my good friend, Pete Wright. Today we're talking with Brittany Bliss and Reid Givens, the musical couple behind Brittany and the Blisstones. They're here to talk with us about their experience navigating dual divorces, family separations, and how they have rebuilt their lives and identities after building lives with other partners came to an end. Brittany and Reid, welcome to the toaster.
Brittany Bliss:
Thank you very much. We're excited to be here with you.
Reid Givens:
Indeed.
Pete Wright:
Okay. You guys have such an interesting story and you seem to be on parallel tracks that just didn't find one another until much later than maybe you expected. How do you start when you tell the story of your relationship?
Brittany Bliss:
It all started with me picking up the ukulele when I was very recently separated. I was taking my son to pick out some music lessons at Guitar Center and I saw it on the wall and I basically haven't put it down since then. So that was March of 2017, and by that winter, I had started to feel comfortable like, "Hey, I want to try to go to some open mics and just see where this can go." And my first ever time performing in a bar with lights on me, I was so nervous I wanted to just run from the building screaming. And that's the night that Reid saw me and he introduced himself, because he had been going to that open mic for a while as the drummer. And so-
Pete Wright:
Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait just a minute.
Seth Nelson:
We've got like three hours of a show just almost been said so far.
Pete Wright:
Back the truck up. You weren't a musician at all in your prior life?
Brittany Bliss:
So I was a closet, sad musician my whole life. So I did like five years of choir and just little dabbles here and there with music, but always in a choir setting, never by myself. I was a very nervous singer before I got the ukulele. And there's something about having your hands be busy, I was able to really let loose as a solo singer once I had my security blanket of a ukulele.
Pete Wright:
Okay. Okay. Security blanket ukulele.
Seth Nelson:
That's what I sleep with every night.
Brittany Bliss:
Very cozy.
Reid Givens:
It's much easier than a bass.
Pete Wright:
Okay. So I've been listening to your tracks all day so far that are up on Apple Music and it sure doesn't sound like you just picked up a ukulele just a few years ago.
Brittany Bliss:
Oh, thank you.
Pete Wright:
You know that sad closet career, which ironically is the same thing Seth says about his closet clowning career. He can't shake the attorney side.
Seth Nelson:
I can juggle.
Pete Wright:
All right, Reid. You were there too.
Reid Givens:
I was, turns out.
Pete Wright:
What brought you into the picture?
Reid Givens:
So I was relocated with the company I was working for from Albuquerque, New Mexico to Chico, California. And this all coincided with my divorce and also my youngest child becoming 18. So this was a get divorced, drop the kid off at college, and then into the U-Haul truck with everything you own to a city you've never been to before.
Pete Wright:
And your former spouse stayed in Albuquerque?
Reid Givens:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
Okay. All right.
Reid Givens:
So yeah, music. I'd been playing drums basically my entire life, since I was five, but stopped when I had kids in my first marriage. It was not conducive to spend a bunch of time in bars or away from the other person at the time. So music just kind of became a thing not to do and that didn't get along with me too well. So that was one of the commitments I made after the divorce. Music is important to me, going to make sure to prioritize that. So that was one of the first things I did when I moved here is you got to find the other musicians. Being a drummer, it's a little bit tougher on account of no one wants to hear a 20 minute drum solo except maybe other drummers. So you need other musicians to play with.
Seth Nelson:
I just woke up this morning thinking, "God, I'd love to hear a 20 minute drum solo."
Reid Givens:
Absolutely.
Seth Nelson:
So we're going to take a break. So Reid, go back there.
Pete Wright:
See you in 20 minutes.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. The singer songwriters have it made, they just show up with their guitar, play a little song. Everybody likes it.
Pete Wright:
Or dare we say ukuleles.
Reid Givens:
Or ukuleles. So that was the first order of business was go to every open mic in town and look for the one that had a drum set already there. And I found one, and that's the one I went to every Friday night, and that's the one she walked into one day.
Pete Wright:
Wow. How long had you been going to this bar before she walked in?
Reid Givens:
About five months I think.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Reid Givens:
So yeah, every Friday night and she is a very emotive player. So I got to the open mic that night and she was already up on stage. And man, you can feel her from the second you walk in. Definitely captivated me so I had to wait until after her performance and try to not be creepy, but just let her know, man that was amazing. Really, really enjoyed it. Don't stop, please come back. And then she did.
Pete Wright:
And she did. That's fantastic. All right. So, divorce podcast, we've got to dive a little bit into the divorces before we talk about the navigating stuff afterwards. So now we've had the meet cute, which is wonderful. Let's do the flashback. Tell us a little bit about the un-severing for each of you. Reid, since you're on a roll.
Reid Givens:
Well, there's some funny things that we didn't realize about both of our stories. We were both married for 19 years. We also, our official divorce dates are within days of each other, when we got the paperwork back from the court with a little stamp on it that says approved. So I mean literally the same week we each got them in different states. But yeah, mine started in Tampa, Florida, and we had two kids together.
Seth Nelson:
Ding, ding, ding. Wow. That's my hometown. That's where I am right now. There we go.
Reid Givens:
Nice. Started there, had kids, moved to New Mexico with a career change and did the best we could for as long as we could, but didn't go well in the end. But 19 years is a long time. And then if you consider my age we're basically talking, I turned 18 and then moved in with this person and got married. So essentially my entire adult life up to that point was built with this other person as part of that story and narrative. And so when it probably led to, I stuck around way longer than I should have, because I didn't know how really to define who I was outside of the context of the husband and the father and all that kind of stuff.
Seth Nelson:
You lose your identity. We've talked about that before, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Sure.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. So, I mean, there was a lot of that. It took a long time to finally go, at a certain point there's no more excuses that can be made. This needs to end and try to work all that stuff out. And then all the things that I'm sure you've heard a thousand times it was that lack of identity. What do I do now? What does it mean to be me?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Reid Givens:
And that coinciding with, now I'm an empty nester at the same time. I don't know how much to attribute where, but that is pretty rough.
Pete Wright:
That's the thing that hits me. We are in the process of empty nesting, I have two and one is in college and the other one is on the way out the door, still in high school. And I'm feeling the weight of that experience. When you say we pushed her out the door and then got into the U-Haul, that's a terrifying transition to have to wrap my head around for you on your behalf.
Seth Nelson:
I was actually thinking about that and wondering like, I hope you didn't take your stuff out of the U-Haul and jam it into the dorm room and then leave with all his stuff. And then that's just going to be bad.
Pete Wright:
It's bad news, that's bad news.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. It's bad, bad news.
Brittany Bliss:
Well at least he had the cat with him for all of this. She came out from New Mexico.
Reid Givens:
Emotional support cat.
Pete Wright:
I see. I see. Well.
Seth Nelson:
So now we're sleeping with a cat and a ukulele. That's what I got going on so far, Pete. Right? So Brittany, your divorce...
Brittany Bliss:
Accurate.
Seth Nelson:
Your divorce was swimming super easy, no problems, right? That's how yours went, right?
Brittany Bliss:
Not so much of that.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. Because I described a unicorn, but keep going.
Brittany Bliss:
I will say though, we co-parent really well. Unlike Reid, my divorce was before my, I have one son with my ex-husband who's a 16 and he was about 11 when we split up. So I have been co-parenting with my ex, so we have pretty different dynamics in terms of that because I still have a minor. But I essentially met my ex-husband when I was 20, married at 24, and I left him three times in total. Two moving out and one over a weekend. So I really tried every which way, six ways to Sunday to keep the family intact. That's what my focus was. And my spirit and my vision for my life was just always so clear. Like this person is not, he didn't sign up for the kind of ride that you want in life.
And spending 19 years with someone and realizing they still would be perfectly happy to just sit back and let you dream for the family and achieve for the family is like, I can't have that weight anymore. So that third time was the third and final, but we have a pretty awesome relationship now as friends and people who spent that long together and really focusing on the dynamics that that brings to my son, knowing that his parents get along. Is a real, I mean that's just a gift I know we're giving him.
Seth Nelson:
Sounds like the divorces themselves, the legal process, once you sort of separate the emotional process, was fairly streamlined. Is that a fair assessment for both of you? Is that true?
Brittany Bliss:
On my end? Yeah.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. Pretty much. I mean, I spent a bunch of time trying to figure out what needed to be, what papers needed to go where, and by whom, and then at the end of it, I said, I should really have someone with a degree in this take a look at this before I file anything and make a huge mistake.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. I was saying if there's only anybody out there that does that for a living. God, where do you find those guys?
Pete Wright:
They are illusive. They like to hide.
Brittany Bliss:
Speaking of unicorns.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right?
Brittany Bliss:
Yeah, exactly.
Reid Givens:
You need a magic incantation on Tuesdays under a full moon.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. Behind the fairy tree. Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
That's right.
According to the national Institute on alcohol abuse and alcoholism, approximately 10% of children live with a parent with an alcohol use disorder.
Seth Nelson:
This is an alarming statistic as a family law professional, who deals with custody cases regularly.
Pete Wright:
Finding the balance between the child safety and helping the child maintain a relationship with both parents is one of the hardest things to navigate. Add in the, he said, she said phenomenon that happens with divorcing couples who often weaponize alcohol use against one another, and the situation is even more difficult.
Seth Nelson:
All of this is why Soberlink has been one of the most important tools for my clients dealing with these issues. Soberlink's remote alcohol monitory tool has helped over 500,000 people prove their sobriety and provide peace of mind regarding the child's safety. Soberlink helps keep the focus on the best interests of the child, which is really the most important part in a divorce case dealing with children. I've teamed up with Soberlink to create a parenting plan guide, to help people going through divorce that involves alcohol and children.
Pete Wright:
And you can download it today at soberlink.com/toaster. And if you take a look and you think you're ready to order Soberlink, just mention How to Split a Toaster for $50 off their device price.
Seth Nelson:
Our thanks to Soberlink for sponsoring How to Split a Toaster.
Pete Wright:
So you're going through the process then, you're divorced, you find each other. I want to hear about this process of discovering that there is a new relationship to be had between the two of you. I mean, if you characterize the breaking of a relationship, what's it like for you to realize that there is now a new future? How do you talk about that?
Brittany Bliss:
Well, the first thing that comes to mind is that weekend. So two weeks after the first time we met, which was that very brief interaction of him saying, "Hey, I really enjoyed your performance," which I really needed to hear that night, by the way. Because I don't know if any of you have seen Annie Hall by Woody Allen, but when Diane Keaton's in the bar and she's like, so nervous singing and like glasses break, that's what I felt like. And so for him to say that really meant a lot.
Seth Nelson:
You're like, "I don't care if it was a creepy guy, it sounded good. I'll take it." Nice. Take it from anyone.
Pete Wright:
Step one, take what you can get. Okay. Good. Noted for the show notes.
Brittany Bliss:
Well and there was, I felt something. I didn't even get his name. We had a 30 second interaction and when our eyes met, I really did feel something.
Pete Wright:
Really?
Brittany Bliss:
So the next time that we saw each other was two weeks later at that Friday night open mic. And I got there first and I signed up and I saw him walk through the door and I just, it's such a famous moment for us because we both can just put ourselves there again. I just patted the little bar seat next to me. And we spent till three in the morning together that night and the entire weekend.
Seth Nelson:
Wait a minute, I got a question. Like, were you shooing the cat away?
Brittany Bliss:
No, I was in a bar.
Pete Wright:
The cats don't drink Seth.
Reid Givens:
They don't, I need to talk to mine.
Pete Wright:
That's adorable.
Brittany Bliss:
Yeah. There was this spark that was kind of naturally progressing that second time that we met. And so by the end of the weekend, we kind of both knew already that there was something there and we were both completely terrified. And we kept, what did we do, honey, about that? We kept talking to each other, right?
Reid Givens:
Yeah. I mean, there was, I can't remember the comedian, but he made this joke where he is like dating should be kind of like playing poker where you did just bring all of your issues and, "well, you got that. I can raise that. I can beat that. I've got this problem."
Brittany Bliss:
This crazy.
Reid Givens:
Yeah, right.
Seth Nelson:
I'll one up you on my problem. That's a good way to land a spouse.
Reid Givens:
We almost did that kind of. I mean, both sides of that though. It was like these were some of the challenges. These are what I'm aware of that I don't want to do again. And had this really almost oddly frank conversation about, if this is a relationship and we're both a little gun shy about it, what does that need to look like? Or what do we think that needs to feel like? And anything we could think of to try to, somewhere between I guess, reassure ourselves or let the other person know what level of crazy they're going to be dealing with if they sign up for this.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Because we're all crazy. It's just a level. I like that a lot.
Pete Wright:
Matter of degrees. Yeah.
Brittany Bliss:
The only normal people are the people you don't know very well. It's one of my very favorite quotes.
Pete Wright:
That's really good.
Seth Nelson:
So how does it come up that you figure out that you were divorced relatively within the same week? Were you guys celebrating them individually with cakes? What was going on there?
Brittany Bliss:
That was three months ago when we were filing for our marriage license for the state of Nevada. We didn't know.
Seth Nelson:
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You didn't know?
Brittany Bliss:
We knew they happened around the same time, but we didn't know they were two days apart. So we just found that out like three months ago.
Seth Nelson:
Wow. And then on your marriage certificate, you have to put if you were married before in the date of divorce and you're like, "hmm, really close."
Pete Wright:
Wow.
Brittany Bliss:
Really close, two days.
Seth Nelson:
Got it.
Reid Givens:
Spooky.
Pete Wright:
That is spooky.
Seth Nelson:
Almost as creepy as some guy coming up when you're holding a ukulele.
Pete Wright:
You know, I'm a big movie guy. So this story, somebody needs to write this story. Like this is a, I know like I can already cast it. Like somebody's in this, in my head. This is a big thing. This movie, it's going to be huge.
Brittany Bliss:
Aww.
Reid Givens:
Well now we just have to get famous so people want to watch that movie.
Brittany Bliss:
Yeah, keep streaming that music.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right. Keep streaming that music.
Reid Givens:
I'm looking for the cameo on the podcast. That's what I'm hoping for Pete.
Pete Wright:
This is going to be, this podcast is going to take up like a quarter of the movie, the experience.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. So you guys meet though and you have this weekend and you basically, it sounds to me like you're being open, honest and vulnerable and that's fricking terrifying. Especially after you've gone through a divorce where everything could still be raw. Or if not, you just picked off that scab and let's pour some salt in it. But it sounds like you were each doing that to yourselves to explain where you were coming from, not at each other. Is that a fair assessment?
Brittany Bliss:
That's very well said. Yep.
Seth Nelson:
How did you get the courage to do that? Or another way to say it is, what the hell were you drinking?
Brittany Bliss:
Lots of kombucha.
Pete Wright:
Kombucha. It's very natural. Very natural. Look, I think that question is, I think it's really important for me and as somebody listening this whole idea of the fact that you're trying to wander through the fear while the emotions and chemicals are making time speed up. Right? That's the thing that, it feels like this second relationship, everything I've heard is, and I'm not divorced so I'm the vessel for learning, that everything speeds up in a new relationship, but you're dragging something behind you.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. That's a good way to put it.
Brittany Bliss:
Half life.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. We got this one from Will Smith I guess. We read some articles somewhere that said that when him and Jada first got together, they actually went to counseling pretty early on. I guess the idea is kind of like preventative health or preventative maintenance, get in there before you need it. And so that's something we've been doing for a while. So, I mean, we've been together for five years and for three and a half of those, we've been in couples therapy.
Brittany Bliss:
I think it was nine months. We started therapy at nine months.
Seth Nelson:
Oh, first disagreement, Pete. Let's see how this goes.
Pete Wright:
This is going on the show. This is going in the movie
Seth Nelson:
For sure.
Reid Givens:
But that's a term that we got from our therapist, she calls it the half life of the previous relationship. And having that language...
Seth Nelson:
Talk about that.
Reid Givens:
Having that language.
Seth Nelson:
I don't understand that.
Reid Givens:
So it took us 19 years to develop whatever conceptions we have about what it's like to be married. So now that we're in this second long term relationship, there's a good chance that we're going to assume how to behave, or how to interact, or the expectations of the other person based on two decades of experience with a different person. And so sometimes either our own trauma or expectations or whatever can be projected onto the other person, based on those old things and not based on the person you're actually talking to right now, in this situation, about this present thing. And so she says it took us 19 years to get there. It's going to take you some time to get out, to stop having those assumptions or to stop.
Brittany Bliss:
I'm like, "I want the formula." So it's 19 years divided by two is this is the year and month where we're not going to feel the half life anymore. Right? She's like, "no, it kind of goes like this."
Seth Nelson:
I was doing that math and it's not linear. Right.
Pete Wright:
That's enormously aggravated because I'm thinking you can't introduce a concept with math and finish it with a hand gesture and a wavy line. That is not fair.
Brittany Bliss:
Our left brains don't like that at all.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. No, they don't care for it. I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Brittany Bliss:
No, no. I was just going to say, I think that's like, to answer the question that was being asked just previously about where do you find the courage to be that raw and vulnerable after going through, and like the words you were using were so great. The scab, it's just so fresh. And I think because there was a couple of factors there of very early on, we established with each other that it was always safe to say how you're feeling. And it sounds so basic, but when you're in a dysfunctional relationship, you can't necessarily do that because you are going to be met with misunderstanding, resentment, a fight.
Pete Wright:
Being gas lit, all that stuff.
Brittany Bliss:
Exactly. Manipulated, made fun of, that was a big one for me. And so when we were able to really show each other so early it was like, we kept daring to be courageous because we kept always feeling the fruit of that labor with each other because we just, it was like, "oh, okay. So you're different. You're not looking to do that to me." I mean, there were just so many times early on where we're like expecting this behavior from the other person because of that half life, and then just talking about that and go, "well, I was really prepared for you to throw something at me in the kitchen just now."
Pete Wright:
Right, right. I'm picking up a knife and you're thinking he is about to stab me and he's like, "I'm making you a salad."
Brittany Bliss:
Yep.
Seth Nelson:
How quickly we back ourselves into a corner with no threat at all. This ghost threat.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. And that's I think why having language, like what our therapist gave us with the emotional half life, is we have something to call that. So if we get into a tense moment, an almost argument, we can stop for a minute and go, "is this really what's happening here? Or is this a projection? Is this half life?Or is my half life stepping on your half life?"
Brittany Bliss:
They like to do that. It's so fun.
Pete Wright:
I wanted to talk about that. At what point do you feel like you are processing at the same pace? Or do you ever feel like you're processing at the same pace together?
Reid Givens:
Well, we process things differently. So I don't know. I mean maybe on average we probably get there at about the same time, but what it looks like for us to get there during that time is pretty different.
Brittany Bliss:
Depends on how elevated the emotions are. Because I know if I misunderstand Reid that one of my big things just to give a specific example, is if I feel like I've shared something vulnerable and I might be made fun of or judged, I can just kind of, he just has this like thinky face and I project, "oh, he's finding a way to make fun of me." And in five years he has never made fun of me. So if I'm super elevated like that, I'm going to process things slower because I need to come back down to reasonable land.
Seth Nelson:
That's a really interesting point because I've been with my fiance now for 12 years and she's only made fun of me. So what I like about that though, is I get worried if she's not cracking a joke. That's how she communicates, Pete knows here.
Brittany Bliss:
That's her barometer. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Right. He knows what I'm talking about. But I know that she's just always trying to go for the joke and make me laugh because she says, "there's almost nothing I like more in the world than making you laugh."
Brittany Bliss:
Oh, that's cute.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Even if it's at myself, which is quite often, but you also need to understand who's giving the message and how you're receiving it.
Pete Wright:
I just have to ask the reciprocal question here, because Reid, you were just informed that you have a thinky face. Would you like to respond in kind?
Reid Givens:
This is a well known thing for me. This was, probably my best friend still to this day, we ran a business into the ground together.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding.
Reid Givens:
So we were sharing an office way back in the day and something was going on in my personal life that I can't remember what it was at this point. But I remember I had to go outside and have this very difficult phone call. And I remember walking back in feeling like I was just exuding so much negative energy. And it must have been written all over my face. And so I look at my friend and I'm like, "I don't think I've ever been this mad in my entire life." And he goes, "really? Because you look exactly the same as you do all the time." So there's yeah. I'm not the most expressive person, which is fine because I'm the drummer. I'm in the back. I'm sitting down. It's good.
Brittany Bliss:
I'm the lead singer. I have all the personality.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
Reid, I wish I had the talent that you have to keep the same face because I've done trials now on Zoom and it's distracting because the other side will say something and the judge will say something and I see the response on my face.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
It's not good. It's really bad. And before Zoom, I was in court,
Brittany Bliss:
You had no idea. Oblivious.
Seth Nelson:
And a judge. I did and here's why, is a judge looked down at me and said, "well, I can tell by the expression on your face, Mr. Nelson, you think the court's ruling is improper." And I was just like, for a second, and I just had to go with the joke. I said, "your honor, my facial expressions have been getting me in trouble with my mother across the kitchen table since as long as I can remember." And she laughed and she goes, "my mother hates my handwriting," but I literally have to focus to be like Reid.
Pete Wright:
Yes. Well, but it is one of those things like tiny Zoom window Seth, tiny window Seth, it's somebody that you have to get to know that is the gift of the pandemic that you actually have to do that. But new partnership, like the experience of, and the intentionality that has to really go into getting to know this other person, even if only to supplant those old habits and those old expectations, is incredibly important. Is what I'm hearing at least.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. There was so much of trying to make sure that we weren't going to fall back into what we had just left. We left for a reason. If we thought it could have been better and we worked it out, we would've stayed and we did several times. But the other part of it is just like, it's not just that, but it's also where do I want to go?
Seth Nelson:
That was my question. So it sounds to me you guys are focused on this half life, but to me at some levels, I feel like you're inviting your former relationship into the current one. So are you working to keep that out and you're just talking about you, but not your former spouse? Does that make sense?
Brittany Bliss:
It does make a lot of sense. So it's definitely like, "oh, this is a pattern that I'm recognizing that I developed in my last relationship, but not bringing that other person's energy in." It's like, "oh, I'm noticing I'm feeling threatened or scared and it's because it's triggering this certain memory." But I think that actually, if you don't identify that, because if you're in a relationship with someone for 20 years and you don't talk about that stuff in your next relationship, those ghosts will be there so much stronger. Because you're not even identifying that you're bringing that baggage with you and wherever you go, there you are. Which is another favorite saying. But yeah, I think for us it does feel like that's how we stay current paradoxically, is by talking about those things that get triggered from the past.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. We recently, like it was a defense mechanism for me to be successful in the previous relationship, to make sure that I didn't say the wrong thing at the wrong time. And I mean, to a certain extent that's every relationship. But there was certain like if my partner at the time was very elevated or under a lot of stress or something like that, it was very easy to misinterpret something that I said. And then explosion and who knows how long this is going to last and for how many days and how big the blast radius is going to be.
So it was, if I'm unsure, I need to be reserved, quiet, say as little as possible until she could calm down, and then maybe we could talk about it later. What we've recently discovered, that doesn't work with Brittany, so if she is under a lot of stress or something and I'm trying to just chill out to not give her any more to worry about, that can actually feel like distance to her.
Pete Wright:
And stresses her out.
Reid Givens:
Exactly. It makes it worse. And that was a thing, and it took us a while to figure that one out, by running up against that a few times until we go, "oh, okay, that's what's going on." But I guess back to what Brittany said earlier, it was that very early decision that it's always safe to share what you're feeling, allows us to have conversations like that. Even if we don't know what's going on.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. I hear that because once, this was many years ago, my fiance goes, "I don't understand what happened in your last relationship. You get along with your former spouse. She's absolutely wonderful. Great." She just had all these compliments and I said, "well, the joke is, well, I messed it up," which I actually thought is a true statement. And she goes, "but I just don't get it." And I said, "do you know when I tell you my chest feels tight?" And she's like, "oh yeah. You're like horrible. That's when you're most stressed," and that's actually a code for now, because sometimes if my chest is just tight, I might not be able to vocalize and say what's bothering me, but I can feel it. And so now I just say, my chest is tight and my fiance knows what to do.
Whether it's give me a hug, give me space, like whatever it might be. But I told her my chest was tight for three years and she was like, "oh, shit. I would've not put up for that for three years. Are you kidding me?" And hey I'm a wordsmith, I'm a lawyer. I would get tongue tied and tight and not even know how to express what I was feeling. And I can still feel that emotion physically. And then if I breathe, if I calm down, if I do all the things that we talk about just to get in the right head space to then say, "okay, I think this is what's going on." So do you have like little triggers that you can feel and then you can quickly express so you don't explode things in your new relationship?
Brittany Bliss:
Yeah, we have a little saying, "I have a weird, I have a weird." And we've sort of borrowed that too from, this next part, from Brené Brown of like, I'm making up a story. I'm making up a story right now that I just really pissed you off because you wanted help with dinner and I just want to play the piano, and then we'll talk about it. So we have that little like, that's like a heads up to the other person like, "Hey, the next thing out of my mouth might make zero logical sense. And I'm having some strong feelings." I think it's so great to have that container, that shared language with your partner, like you were just describing with the tight chest.
Pete Wright:
We do that too. And we've been doing that with our kids, this whole idea of we're all the star of our own movie. And sometimes you need to look around and see if you're just a supporting cast member. Sometimes you've got to be able to read what's on screen right now. This might not be about you this time.
Brittany Bliss:
That's very good.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. That's a good point.
Reid Givens:
I had a friend of mine they, from the outside looks like they've had a perfect marriage the entire time. But their trigger word, I suppose that's kind of similar to ours is they call it the circle of trust. Which basically means I'm about to say something that's going to sound really critical of you, but the intent is not to be mean to you. The intent is to try to bring this to your attention and maybe have some dialogue around it.
And so it's interesting to me that depending on the scenario you find yourself in, that seems to be a really handy way of doing it. And I keep seeing that crop up in different places. This prefix, this predefined, if I say this, like you were just talking about my chest is tight. I don't have to know what that means, but it informs the other person. If this gets said, it means something else. And that's easier to remember in the moment when you're stressed out, is what's the phrase? Instead of what am I actually feeling.
Pete Wright:
Too many people lampoon having a safe word I'm telling you.
Reid Givens:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
There are many contexts other than that one where a safe word comes in handy.
Brittany Bliss:
Totally agree.
Seth Nelson:
But I tried like double bacon cheeseburger. It just doesn't work.
Pete Wright:
Avocado.
Seth Nelson:
No, it doesn't really.
Reid Givens:
Are you hungry? Do you want a snack?
Pete Wright:
I have a thing and I'm sure there are many ways from Sunday that this isn't healthy, but we have a thing in my marriage where if there's something that's really on my nerves that my wife's doing and I need to get it out and I know it's going to come off as critical or judgmental. We always start with, "is there something you really hate about me right now?" And she knows immediately that I'm going to ask her to change something about her life, but that she gets a free crack at me too. And so, as long as it's reciprocal, the balance of sort of emotional power is maintained. And we're totally even because I get off my chest my thing, and she is able to just have a freebie. Anything she wants. I'll do it. I'll do it.
Brittany Bliss:
Can you say that one more time?
Pete Wright:
Which part?
Brittany Bliss:
Is there something about me that is driving you crazy right now? Is that what you said?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, is there something about me that you can't stand right now? Is there anything that I can change right now?
Seth Nelson:
Brittany's taking massive notes over there.
Reid Givens:
I know.
Seth Nelson:
I'm saying that three times tonight.
Pete Wright:
It was so scary the first time we tried it, but it was one of those things that just, it created balance for us. That just makes it one of the... And it can be the big or the small things, the smallest thing in the world that bugs me to no end. It is a huge button. When everybody in my family takes the little stickers off of fruits and vegetables and puts them on the counter and never cleans them up. So we end up with this counter that's a mess with stickers. How does that even become culturally acceptable? But it did in my house.
Seth Nelson:
Pete, that's called art. That's called art.
Pete Wright:
No, you don't know art. You're a dog playing poker guy, come on. And that was one of those things it's bugging me like crazy. And that totally changed. And I don't even remember the thing that she asked of me. It was so, but it freed me of a button, and we've used it for decades.
Brittany Bliss:
Nice. I would say one other thing that just popped into my head that I think is worth making a note of, especially since we have an attorney in the room. Is one thing that Reid and I have often pointed to as something so refreshing and relieving in our dynamic is that unlike both of our previous marriages, neither one of us is ever on trial. So Reid has a lot of experience in his last relationship with things that were said in the heat of a moment or things that were said that were misunderstood. And then not being able to move past that because that's just ammunition and like opposing sides of a court case, right? It's like, no but you said this.
Seth Nelson:
Brittany, you're saying when I'm in an argument and she says, "will you stop deposing me?" And when I say, "I will when you just answer the fucking question," that's what you're talking about. Right?
Brittany Bliss:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. You know, asking for a friend, I'm just saying.
Brittany Bliss:
Right. Yes. Yes.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. But I do have a question because we're talking a lot about our relationship with each other. But as we all know, we have extended family, we have kids, we have friends that we go out with. Sometimes we go with people for business purposes and maybe you're just got to be there, but you don't really want to be. So I think there can be a lot of miscommunication on what one of you may or may not need in those different settings. So do you guys talk about like, "Hey, you know that creepy uncle's coming over, we got to deal with them. I really get stressed about it. I need your help with this." Do you have those conversations? Cause those types of interactions with others can trigger you, and then if your spouse or your loved one, the person you're in a relationship with isn't supporting you when you're being triggered. Now that external factor has become an internal factor in the relationship.
Brittany Bliss:
Yeah. I think one of the biggest examples of this is Reid's co-parenting relationship with my son. So I'm Michael's mom and Reid is now the stepdad. And so there is this power imbalance of yes, there's two adults in the house, but only one of them is my real parent. But since Reid has been with me for five years, there have been a numerous times where Michael, being a teenager boy and like trying to push those boundaries and I can absolutely like pull Reid aside and be like, "all right, here's what I think I want to do discipline wise, parenting wise. And this is what's stressing me out is I feel like I'm being a bad mom," and talking through all those things and then having Reid's perspective. He doesn't ever try to like butt in the relationship between Michael and myself. Which is great, because they have a wonderful relationship. But he does support me and there've been numerous times where I'm like, "Hey, what would you do with your kid in this situation?" Just to bounce those ideas off of. That's the first thing that came to my mind.
Reid Givens:
She is much more outgoing and extroverted than I am. So we have some general, I mean we've had conversations about that before. It actually came up recently because our album release party is the same day as our wedding reception, at the same venue. And if that doesn't sound like a really fun thing to try and organize those two events on the same day at the same location, let me tell you, give it a go.
Pete Wright:
Did you have no control in the scheduling of said events?
Brittany Bliss:
It sounded like a great idea four months ago.
Seth Nelson:
I mean you definitely have control over one of those. You can decide when you're getting married. Okay. Album release date, I don't know. Okay.
Pete Wright:
Sounded like a good idea at the time.
Brittany Bliss:
It just lined up and it sounded great.
Reid Givens:
We already have the venue.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, no it's got to be a hell of a celebration. Focus on that. All the stuff leading up to it might feel like a disaster, but yeah, it's going to be great.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. We were kind of going through the planning of it and we're, "what are we going to do during the wedding reception at this point?" And I don't remember exactly how I phrased it, but it was basically, what I was attempting to convey is I haven't myself been to a lot of wedding receptions. And when I do go, because I'm typically very introverted, I go for the shortest amount of respectable time possible and then I bail, quickly. So if there's normal events that happen at these, I'm not sure what they are. So I'm not very good at planning this section and I need to rely on your expertise more. That is not how it came out of my mouth.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Cause that sounds to me like a two drink minimum and you're out. Okay.
Pete Wright:
Sounded awesome actually, just described my dream. That's how I work.
Seth Nelson:
All right. How'd it come out? I can't wait to hear this.
Brittany Bliss:
What I heard is, "I don't like fun. I don't really want to be at this event and you're going to have to entertain everyone while I scowl in the corner."
Reid Givens:
So that was not cool.
Seth Nelson:
I don't like fun. Name of the show.
Reid Givens:
So that prompted another one of those. "Okay, right. This is my wedding reception." As an introvert, you get generally speaking, we're all on the spectrum. But in an introverted kind of state, if you don't feel prepared, it generates a lot of anxiety. It's not that introverts mind being around other people it's that if we're not prepared for being around a lot of other people, if people are going to come up and make small talk and we don't know what kind and we may not have material for it and we don't have a good, that's stressful. Whereas more extroverted people can off the top of their heads kind of stuff.
Brittany Bliss:
I love that, that's my jam.
Reid Givens:
So it's one of those comfort things. And so we sat down and talked about it. We're like, "okay, you are more extroverted and more things like that, it means that. I am more introverted and it means this." It doesn't mean I don't want to have a wedding reception. It doesn't mean I don't want to go to my own wedding reception. It doesn't mean I'm disinterested in trying to plan a good one, but we need to talk about it.
Pete Wright:
I just don't want to talk to anybody while I'm there.
Brittany Bliss:
I want to be behind the scenes.
Reid Givens:
Yeah. Well, that's usually how I get through parties. I'm the one who is running around managing it. So I don't have to focus on the people. Like I can't do that when it's about you celebrating you. Maybe you can, but it's probably not a good idea. But that was one of those conversations where it's like, "I just need your help with this. And it's going to sound dumb in some ways, but maybe we need to sit down and help me remember that I'm an expert on myself." I don't need to prepare material for how is my relationship. I know it, I know that a hundred percent of that. I don't need to prepare for it. There's not some weird question that's going to come out of nowhere that's going to floor me at my wedding reception.
Seth Nelson:
I think it's brilliant. I think the fact that you basically have this miscommunication about planning a wedding reception, and then that brings out really your personalities and how you deal with it and how this makes me anxious. It's not that I don't want to celebrate that we're getting married and I like all the people we're inviting, but here's my issue, how do I get through it? Help me through it. That's what relationships are about, is supporting the other person. And if you're talented enough as you are Reid, to identify it, be able to articulate it about you, not about the party or whatever the circumstance is, that's the nugget. That's the gold right there. Brittany I see why you landed this guy. Nice work.
Brittany Bliss:
Oh, I know. I know. Thank you. Very pleased.
Pete Wright:
I got one more question. One more question. And that is you find each other, you find each other under the spotlight in a musical theater number, I have to imagine in my head, and there's a chorus and everybody else in the bar turns and starts singing in harmony. That's what's happened right now in the movie.
Brittany Bliss:
Yes, please.
Pete Wright:
And now you're just right on the cusp of releasing your first album together.
Brittany Bliss:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
Can we talk a little bit about what it's like to transition from 19 years of marriage with a partner that is dissolving over a part of that marriage, to now five years of a relationship and some of that in a marriage, where you are also working together?
Brittany Bliss:
Ah, it's delightful. There's this thing that happens where it's like me as a songwriter and him as a songwriter, we're very aware that as two islands, we wouldn't be able to make what we made together. And so I'm not going to lie, there's definitely days where you're like, "ah, but I really don't like that chord change and ugh," but that's just what happened in any band scenario anyway. And so we talk through it.
Seth Nelson:
It's funny you say that, any band scenario. I was thinking, I've never said that relationship. I just don't like that chord change.
Brittany Bliss:
Well he could be much more prog rock and I'm much more pop and anyway, but we make it work. But I think because of the great suffering that each of us, and don't get me wrong, our ex-spouses are not monsters, they're not horrible people. They're the parents of our children, all of that. But Reid and I fulfill for each other, what was so clearly missing in our previous relationships, in a really deep way. And so from very early on in our relationship, we knew we were going to try to run a business together or be working spouses because we just, we can have the best time just walking through Costco still after five years making jokes to each other, as we can at the Venetian in Las Vegas. There's just that natural compatibility that makes any project we're looking to do, like this album release, just that much more satisfying.
Reid Givens:
This is one of those for better or worse kind of things. And I think at the end of it, the net of it is so much better because all the same issues that you can have in a romantic partnership or a business partnership, or a we're trying to create art together that is supposed to be an expression of ourselves relationship. We're doing all of those and they can all go wrong the same way. Or if she writes this beautiful song that I think absolutely needs this extra chord change in it, and I'm destroying her baby, she then comes right, we still live together. So the worse part of the for better or for worse, is that any part of it can bleed into all of the rest of it.
Seth Nelson:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Reid Givens:
The better part I think, and why it's always in that positive is that we learn so much about each other. We have these potential friction points that we find ways of working through together, which is necessary, not just because we think it's the right way to do it, but there's a lot at stake. I don't want to sleep on the couch tonight. And also, the LLC is a 50-50 split. We're both on that one and really make sure, am I bringing the best version of me to everything that I'm doing? And working through this stuff as it comes up. And what actually ends up happening is we work through a lot of stuff faster because we're in so many more situations where we need to do it. And the more success we have with that, the more confidence we have in our abilities and our partnership, in all aspects of our partnership. And so that starts eating away at that half life and we can start looking back and go, "we know we can do hard things because we did."
Seth Nelson:
Sure.
Reid Givens:
And now we have tangible outcome. I mean, what we do, you can stream it on Spotify, we can hold up a CD. But it's there, it's exists, it's real.
Seth Nelson:
And we're going to talk about that more, but I know Pete, you always hate it when I say here's the takeaway, but if you really want to have a solid relationship, you just need to start a band.
Brittany Bliss:
Yep. Hey, everyone is musical. You just find the right instrument.
Pete Wright:
This has been great. You guys thank you for sharing your experience and your hard won wisdom. And soon your music well, I guess now your music, links in the show notes, we'll put links to where you can find Brittany and the Blisstones in Spotify and Apple Music. And the album by the time you hear this, will be only days away.
Brittany Bliss:
Yes. Three days away.
Pete Wright:
From dropping on those platforms. So pretty exciting.
Brittany Bliss:
Awesome. Thank you for having us.
Seth Nelson:
Do you have a favorite?
Brittany Bliss:
I think mermaid. I think mermaid is my favorite from that album.
Reid Givens:
I was going to go with La La Love. What's funny is we wrote the songs together during COVID. I mean, some of them are older than that, but when we really sat down and were like, "this is now going to be an album and we're going to start tracking instruments." It's while COVID was happening. So it was just her and me. We wrote all the parts for all the pieces, any instrument we can't play, we found somebody on the internet, commissioned them to play it. So like the cello players from the philharmonic orchestra out of Italy, and all over the world, which is really cool.
Seth Nelson:
That's where I get my cello players.
Reid Givens:
Absolutely. Always.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. As one does.
Reid Givens:
Yeah, so we finished the album, we got it recorded. And then restrictions started to lift and it's like, "okay, we can get a live band back together." And then we did. And now we've got all of these really talented musicians that we found here locally, who all play their instruments better because they're experts at them, than the ones that we wrote in the album. So when we play it live, it sounds different because the parts have evolved.
Seth Nelson:
Sure.
Reid Givens:
And so I love mermaid, I think it's a great song. It is one of my favorites. But right now I've got La La Love stuck in my head, mostly because of the way we're doing it live.
Brittany Bliss:
Yeah.
Reid Givens:
Like that song just got, it's so much fun, especially when the trumpet player shows up.
Pete Wright:
Found itself. It's neat. Yeah. That's fantastic. Well, can't wait.
Seth Nelson:
Got to listen to it.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Been listening to it all morning, it's fantastic.
Seth Nelson:
No, I'm telling the listeners, you got to listen to it. It's great.
Brittany Bliss:
Thank you so much.
Pete Wright:
Totally. It's really great. Thank you guys so, so much for joining us. We sure appreciate you both for being on the show. Brittany, Reid, where do you want to send people? Do you have your website? Where do you want to point people before we let you go?
Brittany Bliss:
Yeah, the website is the best place cause there's links to everything right there. It's Brittany, B-R-I-T-T-A-N-Y. And the Blisstones, B-L-I-S-S-T-O-N-E-S.com.
Pete Wright:
Beautiful. Beautiful. We'll send those links in the show notes. Go find them. Go listen to the music. Thank you everybody for downloading and listening to this show. Don't forget, we want to hear your divorce questions. Just visit howtosplitatoaster.com/questions and share your story. We'll do our best to address it on the show.
On behalf of Brittany Bliss, Reid Givens, Brittany and the Blisstones, and Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright. And we'll catch you next week right here on How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
Outro:
Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Koster family law and mediation with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Koster. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
