Need vs Ability: Understanding Alimony • Your Divorce Case
Show Me The Money: Understanding Modern Alimony
In this episode of How to Split a Toaster, divorce attorney Seth Nelson and Pete Wright dive into the complex world of alimony. As part of their comprehensive P.E.A.C.E. Process mini-series, they break down what alimony really means today, who might be eligible, and how courts determine payments.
Over the course of the episode, Seth and Pete demystify how alimony actually works. They explore everything from basic calculations to lifestyle considerations, debunk common misconceptions about savings components, and explain why "need and ability to pay" matters more than simple income differences. The discussion covers various types of alimony payments, from short-term support during transitions to longer-term arrangements, and explains how courts look at the whole financial picture.
Questions we answer in this episode:
• How do courts calculate alimony payments?
• What expenses can be included in alimony calculations?
• Can I modify my alimony after divorce?
Key Takeaways:
• Alimony is based on need and ability to pay, not just income differences
• Don't forget to factor in new expenses like health insurance and HOA dues
• Consider lump sum payments to avoid ongoing financial entanglement
Plus, we tackle several listener questions! From high-income scenarios to job loss situations, Seth explains how courts handle various real-world alimony challenges and what rights both parties have when circumstances change.
Whether you're facing divorce or just want to understand how modern alimony works, this episode provides essential insights into one of divorce's most misunderstood aspects. Seth and Pete's practical approach makes complex financial concepts accessible while offering strategies to protect yourself financially during and after divorce.
Links & Notes
Got a question you want to ask on the show? Click here!
-
Pete Wright:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships from TruStory FM. Today, your toaster's expecting its just desserts.
Seth Nelson:
Welcome to the show everybody. I'm Seth Nelson and I'm here, as always, with my good friend, Pete Wright. Today is alimony day. We're going to poke away at the intricacies of alimony, how recent reforms have reshaped the landscape in Florida and what these changes mean for individuals facing divorce.
Pete Wright:
Now I know how excited you get, because this is a topic that does naturally imply a spreadsheet.
Seth Nelson:
I know, it's awesome.
Pete Wright:
Set us up, because I know that when you're facing divorce, there are a lot of things that involve numbers, a lot of categories that involve payments back and forth. Set us up, how do you talk about alimony with your soon to be divorcing client?
Seth Nelson:
First off, let's remember what alimony is. Alimony is a payment from one spouse to the other, either during the pendency of divorce, check your local jurisdiction, that might be temporary alimony, or after your divorce. That's called alimony. Different states call it different things.
In Florida, you could have rehabilitative alimony. That is payment for going back to school or getting certificates, improving your educational standing. You could have temporary, like I said, during the pendency of the case, you can have bridge the gap, which is just a couple years to get back on your feet. That would be a form. There would be durational for a set period of time.
There used to be something called permanent in Florida, which under the new statute that is no longer applicable if you're currently going through a divorce or if there's a modification, and that law on the modification is getting kind of teased out as we speak. So you have to understand what it is, then you must understand what it's for. So, quiz time, Pete.
Pete Wright:
Ooh.
Seth Nelson:
I know, 'cause you didn't expect it.
Pete Wright:
I didn't. I thought I was off the hook this time.
Seth Nelson:
Yep, nope. Unannounced pop quiz. Alimony, married for 20 years. They have two kids, both been in private school the entire time. Is the alimony payment supposed to go to help pay for that private school tuition?
Pete Wright:
No, I do know this one. No, it's not.
Seth Nelson:
Why not?
Pete Wright:
It is not, because that would be child support.
Seth Nelson:
It would fall under payments for children. That's not what Florida alimony law teaches us, so you have to talk about what is this for. Now, what happens if you have a 529 plan that's been funded throughout the marriage and you want to continue funding that, and that's been part of your lifestyle.
Also, every month we're very fortunate, we make a lot of money, but we save $10,000 as a couple, and the receiving spouse will say the wife says, I want to contribute to half the 529 plans, 'cause that's what we spend our money on. I know it's for the kids, but it's for their college and I should be able to do that with my money. We've been doing this the whole time, we're very sound financially. I also want to save $5,000 a month, because I don't want to live hand-to-mouth and not be able to save. We're savers, we've done it our whole life.
Can she get payment of alimony for the five grand savings and for paying her half of the 529 plan?
Pete Wright:
God, this seems like such a trick. The 529 seems to be an investment vehicle and that it sounds like would not be, but the way your arms are crossed, and I'm reading your face, it seems like whatever I say I'm wrong. I'm going to say no.
Seth Nelson:
How about Walk like an Egyptian? Does that change your answer?
Pete Wright:
Nice throwback. I think the answer is no. I think the answer is no, I don't know that I could justify that.
Seth Nelson:
Well, do you think it's reasonable if one spouse is a collective ... they're not arguing about money, they're saying, look, we've always saved, the only thing we're going to court to argue about is I want to save ... I'll give you the 529 plan, it's a payment for our child, the answer's no, okay?
But now we got the savings account. "Judge, we always saved. We always saved, why shouldn't he have to pay me the standard of living? 'Cause we're talking about standard of living. Why shouldn't I be allowed to save money? Isn't that sound fiscal responsibility?"
Pete Wright:
Yes, but is alimony supposed to be used to maintain standard of living?
Seth Nelson:
That's part of it.
Pete Wright:
See, I'm conflicted, because what you have told me for years is to expect standard of living to change when a divorce happens.
Seth Nelson:
Fair point. "Judge, we typically save $10,000. I get that standard of living change, I'm not going to save half five, I want to save three. I'll drop it by two grand. Standard of living changes, we have two houses, there's less money, but when you look at it, he can still pay me three to my savings account." "Good point, counsel."
Pete Wright:
Okay. Okay, all right, I'll take it. You've swayed me. Yes, that can be part of alimony.
Seth Nelson:
Answer's no. So in Florida the answer's no, there's not a savings component. Okay, so in Florida, this is what it pays for. Just very quickly, like I said, rehabilitative alimony, you got to have a plan to get your education and it can possibly pay for that. Otherwise, it is your need and his ability to pay. That's the starting point, okay? People keep messing this up in the new law in Florida, they think it is 35% of the difference of their net incomes.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
35% the difference of their net incomes.
Pete Wright:
That's not true with the new law?
Seth Nelson:
That's the new law, but it's the lesser of. 35%, the difference of their net incomes or someone's need and the other person's ability to pay. So trusty calculator, here we go.
Pete Wright:
Bring it.
Seth Nelson:
For the visual for ... let's say the net income of one party is six ... I'm going to make it $7,500.
Pete Wright:
Okay, net income, one party, $7,500.
Seth Nelson:
Say the husband. The wife, net income $2,500.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Minus $2,500 from the 75, difference is five grand. You agree with me?
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
That's the difference in their net incomes, $5,000.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Seth Nelson:
The most the wife can receive times 0.35, 35%, $1,750-
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
... in that math. So what a lot of lawyers do, they just look at the net incomes and do the math, but you got to first look at the need. If she doesn't need the $1750 on the calculator and she only needs 500 bucks because that was their standard of living, she only gets $500.
Pete Wright:
She only gets $500?
Seth Nelson:
That's right.
Pete Wright:
That case is made by whom? Because it seems like she's going to say, oh, I need all $1750.
Seth Nelson:
That's right, that's right. So, the case to be made is what is her need? On this hypothetical, I'm assuming he has the ability to pay.
Pete Wright:
Yes, let's assume that for now.
Seth Nelson:
So, how do we prove that? So, this is where people really need to start taking notes. Not while you're driving, please. You need to really understand your expenses. This is all about expenses when we're talking about need. Yes, it's about income, I'm going to talk about that in a minute, but you've got to know where your money's going out. Common things people miss. They're on their spouse's health insurance through their employer, their spouse's employer, and it's going to change.
Pete Wright:
Significant.
Seth Nelson:
Big one. Immediately if you are not on the health insurance plan, please go get a quote for your health insurance. Go talk to your HR department if you are not employed and seek an employment, be getting those numbers. If you not employed, go out to the marketplace, look at those numbers, okay?
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Big one. Any expense that is joint. Car insurance, go get quotes for your car.
Pete Wright:
Cell phones.
Seth Nelson:
Cell phones. Life insurance should be in your own name. Make sure that you have that term policy in place, talk to your financial planners about that. Look if you have any membership dues, because what happens is you'll forget that, oh yeah, we've been members at Crunch forever, I just don't really go, Crunch Fitness. So, what is that? So, you got to look at their credit card statements, your credit card statements.
Pete Wright:
'Cause now I want to get that divorce bod in play, so I've got to start going to Crunch and I don't want to show up at the door and realize I'm not actually a member.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. It's called the revenge bod, actually.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, yeah. So, that's one of the key things you can start doing is really identifying where the money is going out.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
The other thing to think about is what, if any, expenses are you going to have that you don't currently have. Think of this. You're moving from a house to a condo, you now have condo association dues, right? These are the things that creep up. Maybe it's 350 bucks a quarter, but if you're only getting $1750 a month, that's going to add up.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right.
Seth Nelson:
Right?
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
So, you really got to understand where your money is going.
Pete Wright:
Assuming again, we're still on the ability to pay part, he can pay, he's got the money to pay. Things like your membership to Crunch Fitness are okay to ask for alimony for?
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, that was part of your standard of living.
Pete Wright:
Okay, all right.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, now you're going to get a decrease on some, right?
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right.
Seth Nelson:
But yeah, so hair, nails, grooming, vacations-
Pete Wright:
Grooming?
Seth Nelson:
Yeah, it's all part of the standard of living.
Pete Wright:
Judge doesn't say, you don't need grooming, get a Flowbee.
Seth Nelson:
Right, exactly. I had a Flowbee case once. I did it, I just wanted to say that. So yes, I mean, go down that financial affidavit and in Florida there's a short form and a long form, use the long form. The reason I tell people to use the long form is it's more detailed, so it's going to trigger your mind to think about some expenses.
So I'm picking up on stuff that some are on the financial affidavit, like your health insurance, but people blow by it. They're like, oh, I got it, and they don't really think about it, they're so stressed out, right? So that's what you really, really want to focus in on, and I mean, you can get down to your Apple subscriptions.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, okay.
Seth Nelson:
Right?
Pete Wright:
All right.
Seth Nelson:
It's all part of your standard of living, okay?
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Now remember, the best way to do this is if you want to download all your transactions into a QuickBooks or into any of those apps that you can do, Monarch Money, whatever, that's a really easy way to get them categorized. You might have your lawyer go through and say, well, what category is this? And sit down with you, okay?
The other thing you can do in your litigation, and people get all freaked out about this, but you can hire a forensic accountant, and we're going to have a whole show about a forensic accountant.
Pete Wright:
I just wish that wasn't what they're called.
Seth Nelson:
'Cause it just sounds negative? Like divorce lawyer is better?
Pete Wright:
It's much better, because you're alive. Forensic implies somebody's dead, that's what CSI taught me.
Seth Nelson:
That's the problem?
Pete Wright:
That's the problem.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, it's not the accountant aspect?
Pete Wright:
No, the accountant's not scary, it's forensic.
Seth Nelson:
It's the forensic part, okay.
Pete Wright:
When you're done with this process, you'll be dead. Thank you very much.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, well, some people feel that way. Okay, so let's talk about unanticipated income.
Pete Wright:
On the person who's targeted to receive-
Seth Nelson:
That's right, perfect.
Pete Wright:
... alimony in this scenario? Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Hypothetically, you are dividing up assets and you have a rental home and your marital home, and you desperately want to keep the home for the kids. He's okay with that. I'm just going to get these arguments out of the way, we're not talking about who's arguing about what. But let's say you get the rental place, the rental house or the rental condo. If that is kicking off income on a monthly basis, that's going to be part of your income.
So in the divorce planning stage, and I don't mean before you're scheming to plan and take everyone to the cleaners, when you're trying to figure out a settlement, you need to get a financial planner, not a forensic planner. See how I did that for you, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Seth Nelson:
A financial planner involved early, because all I can tell you as your lawyer is what I think the law is allowed to get for you. Not that it will happen, judges get it wrong. You got litigation, the whole thing. Sometimes you'll take less to settle your case and save on fees, but I can tell you what you should get. I can't tell you what it will do for you in going to a financial planner earlier in understanding that this is a learned skill about budgeting and spending your money and how to do this.
But think about if you get a rental property, the renters are paying the mortgage down, the rent covers the homeowner association. They're responsible for X, Y and Z gas, water, utilities, electric, cable, so the renter pays that. Maybe you have someone managing it for you that takes 10%, but at the end of the month, you don't get a lot. But even after you put money aside for maintenance, and you put money aside to have your accountant run the taxes at the end of the year, all these business expenses are legit, but you end up with 300 bucks a month.
So if you just think about that, that is another $3,600 a year that you get. You'll have to pay taxes on it, we'll have to account for the taxes, people forget about that too, if you're getting this income from other sources, not from your alimony. But that might be a good idea. People will say like, "But wait, now I have less alimony." That's true, but your alimony's going to stop, that rental income hopefully won't.
Hopefully that property goes up in value, hopefully you're paying down that mortgage, which is a hidden savings component you're not allowed to save like we discussed earlier. So, there's some things that you can do. Even if you get the house with a mortgage, there's a hidden savings component as you pay down the principal. So, this is a time to really get educated on finances and make wise financial decisions about what you're getting and why, and not be so emotional about it.
Pete Wright:
Okay, can we flip the script now and look at the ability to pay component, right?
Seth Nelson:
That's right, that's right. Perfect.
Pete Wright:
How does that work?
Seth Nelson:
Almost like I was holding up a sign.
Pete Wright:
Just so you know, you're not holding up a sign, I just knew it was coming.
Seth Nelson:
So, it's the same analysis. Where does, in this case, the husband's money go? So far, we'll look at his expenses as well, and we'll look at what his income is. Now in my hypothetical, he made $7,500 and she made $2,500. Well, if he gives her the house ... or I should say it this way, in the divorce, an equitable distribution, she receives the house and he goes buys a new house, well, is he allowed to do a 15-year mortgage instead of a 30 when they typically do 30-year mortgages, because now it's more expensive and he doesn't have the ability to pay her, 'cause his mortgage is higher?
Pete Wright:
Oh, that's tricky. I'm going to say no.
Seth Nelson:
Well, if I'm the court, I'm looking at that saying you're inflating that.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Then he's going to say, "Judge, we've had the same house for 15 years, it's a 30-year mortgage. I want to be done paying off my mortgage the same way that she was going to be done paying off her mortgage, so that's why I did 15 years." This seems like a very equitable argument, right? I'm 40 ... let's do it this way. "I'm 50 years old and I want to be mortgage free at 65 just like her."
Pete Wright:
See, that sounds perfectly sound.
Seth Nelson:
Right, right. You can sound perfectly sound when you're making up the facts on a podcast, okay?
Pete Wright:
That's the problem. I can imagine nobody's going to buy that when the point is you're inflating it. Your argument was just entirely based on being able to pay that additional 1500 bucks or whatever we came out to, and now you can't.
Seth Nelson:
Now I can't. So, you got to look at how people are spending them and if they're changing it, right? We've had cases in the past, and a lot of people do, that the person receiving money, and this is especially on a modification, the case is over and someone goes to retire, and the party says on the other side, "But wait, you have all this money and I'm broke." The person that's been paying for five, 10, 20, 30, 40 years, however long says, "I saved for retirement and you didn't. Why do I have to keep paying?"
The other side will be like, "Well, they have all this money. Look at all the money they have in retirement." When I represent the person that's retired, I'm like, "Yeah. Judge, we're not hiding the fact, it's right on the financial affidavit." But did they live within their means this entire time or did they rack up more debt? What has happened that you're now going to make this guy that's been paying for 30 years continue paying 'cause his former spouse mismanaged her money over the last 30 years? That doesn't seem fair.
Pete Wright:
No, that doesn't seem fair either.
Seth Nelson:
Right?
Pete Wright:
Can we do just a brief sidebar to talk about the changes in alimony? Because one of the listener questions came in, is there still such a thing as permanent alimony in Florida? My understanding is no.
Seth Nelson:
No, if you're getting divorced today, there's no longer permanent alimony. So, what that question goes to is how long do you have to pay or how long can you expect to receive?
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
So we always talk about how much for how long, and the how long is in the statute now. So if you think about the length of time on this, and we did a whole podcast right when this came out, so here it is. An award of durational alimony, and that's what it is, may not exceed 50% the length of a short-term marriage. 50% the length of a short-term marriage.
Pete Wright:
What is a short-term marriage?
Seth Nelson:
Begs the question, up to 10 years.
Pete Wright:
Okay, so less than 10 years, five years of that is going to be or have. If it's 10 years, you're going to get five years of alimony?
Seth Nelson:
It's eight years, you're going to get four.
Pete Wright:
You get four, got it.
Seth Nelson:
60% the length of a moderate-term marriage.
Pete Wright:
Up to what, 19?
Seth Nelson:
10 to 20.
Pete Wright:
20, okay.
Seth Nelson:
Okay?
Pete Wright:
All right. Over 20 years?
Seth Nelson:
75% the length of a long-term marriage.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
But now you're thinking, wait a minute, I've been married for 30 years, times 0.75, 75%, I've got to pay for 22 and a half years. You get at what the guys I'm saying in quotes, the payor-
Pete Wright:
That's a long time.
Seth Nelson:
... you get out of jail free card, 'cause here's why, you get to retire. So if you got married at 20 and you're married for 30 years and you're 50, and you're like, "Seriously, I got to pay for another 22 and a half years?" At age 65, there's a mechanism in the statute where you're allowed to retire.
Pete Wright:
And then you're done, you terminate alimony, okay.
Seth Nelson:
Which of course is more attorney's fees, it's more fighting.
Pete Wright:
Oh, wow.
Seth Nelson:
Okay, now we don't talk about this a lot, but I think it's important. What are ways to save in attorney's fees when dealing with an alimony award? If the goal is not to come back to court, how can you do that with an alimony award? One, you can make it non-modifiable, which means it does not change in amount or duration.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Okay? Now, people will say, okay, here come the what ifs, Pete. But what happens if I get disabled and I can't work? Okay, well, now we have an exception, now we have to define what is disabled.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Okay? What happens if my former spouse turns around and gets remarried, 'cause that normally terminates alimony or is in a supportive relationship? They're living together, that would terminate alimony. Okay, well, there's another exception.
Pete Wright:
Do you need to take a step back and define supportive relationship for me?
Seth Nelson:
That's exactly right. What is that? Are they living together? Are they paying each other bills? This is all in the statute and gets argued all the time, okay. Another way to say is, listen, I don't care if they get remarried, I don't care if they're in a supportive relationship, because my goal is never to come back to court again. So, which goal is more important, right? If it's not to come back to court again, you can make it non-modifiable.
Now, what do I advise my clients who really consider this? One, I want a discount on the term and the amount, 'cause it's not changing. Otherwise, you just get a piece of paper. I could come back later, something could happen.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Right?
Pete Wright:
This is I'd like to pay yearly and save two months plan.
Seth Nelson:
That's right, that's right.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, all right.
Seth Nelson:
Now, the other thing you do is you go to your financial planner and say, I'm on the hook for this. It's non-modifiable, it's non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. I'm going to owe it, I'm going to have to pay it. How can I set something up where it just happens automatically and I never see it, I don't think about it? Is it from my income? Is it from my investments? Can I put it in another account making 5%, so at least at the end I'm going to have something left? There's different ways to do that.
Another way to do it is just pay it all upfront, lump some alimony. It's a form of payment, it's not a type of alimony. You're going to have to pay $1750 in our hypothetical for five years, right? $105,000.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Now, sounds like a lot of money, 'cause it is a lot of money. It's six figures. However, if you're dividing up a brokerage account and a house, maybe you divide it all evenly and out of your half you give $105,000 over.
Pete Wright:
Okay, because you keep coming back to sound financial advice, at what point is giving away that $105,000 in the lump sum less sound financial advice than just paying that $1750 a month and earning interest on what's left before you have to give it away?
Seth Nelson:
Well, if you were just doing the math, you would say pay over time.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
If we say $105,000, but we're paying upfront and we want to discount for the time value of money-
Pete Wright:
Then you want to make sure you're making a bigger discount than you would've made in appreciation over time.
Seth Nelson:
Right, potentially, but here's the flaw. It's a great question, but here's the flaw in the analysis. You're assuming that that's just going to continue for five years and no one's going to come back to court.
Pete Wright:
Right. Yeah, that's right.
Seth Nelson:
So let's take that same payment for 10 years, so now it's $210,000, and you call a lawyer five years in when you got 105 left. I say, "All right, well, I need a 10 grand retainer." You're like, "Well, hold on a second. I got $105,000 left to pay over five years at $1750 a month, which costs me $21,000 a year. I'm telling you, I'm in a financial straits where I can't pay that, and now lawyer who's on my side is asking me for 10 grand, which is six months of payments?"
Pete Wright:
Right.
Seth Nelson:
You got to think it through. I will tell you this, every single long-term alimony payor that I have ever represented, and I'm talking 20, 30 year guys that were paying, and I'm saying guys, because back 20, 30 years ago, those were the payors, they all say the same thing when I resolved the case finally and they have no more payments, "I feel like I'm finally divorced." That's just an emotional aspect to it. It's not a legal one, it's emotional one.
Now, when I've represented the person receiving and I tell them, I think we should settle your case, get a financial planer, see where you are. Let's see if we can get one last payment lump sum. You know what they have told me? "I'm glad I don't have to rely on him for money anymore. I was always worried he wasn't going to pay." I would say, "He didn't miss a payment for 27 years." "I know, but every month I was worried, 'cause of what he said and what he did, and what he said to the kids and what we said when we were celebrating our grandchild's second birthday, what I heard him say."
Pete Wright:
That's really interesting, and that's where I was going when you started this conversation, that lump sum can represent an emotional weight at any cost is relieved.
Seth Nelson:
Yep, and what happens is people will do it and then they'll be like, "Oh, paid too much." What happens is anyone that does a deal in divorce has buyer's remorse, because you look at naturally as humans what you gave up. I could have fought for more money, I could have fought for more time. I should have gotten the beach house, not the lake ... whatever. Whatever your X and Y you want to plug in that's important to you, but what you forget about is the emotional time and talking to your lawyers and being frustrated with the court system, it's horrible.
Pete Wright:
It never goes away at that rate.
Seth Nelson:
It's horrible.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, okay.
Seth Nelson:
So it's not an easy topic, it's scary.
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Money is security.
Pete Wright:
For sure. We've got a couple of other questions that have floated in. Can I ask-
Seth Nelson:
Oh, nice.
Pete Wright:
I think you've already addressed one of them. Can I get my alimony judgment changed after the divorce?
Seth Nelson:
It depends on the type of alimony, but if you do the non-modifiable, no, but if there's exceptions. But yeah, alimony in Florida, generally speaking, check your local jurisdiction, is always modifiable.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Always, but it's expensive.
Pete Wright:
I lost my job recently, but my ex still wants alimony. What rights do I have to stop paying her until I find a new job? Do I have to go in front of a judge first?
Seth Nelson:
The answer is yes, you have to go in front of a judge, unless she will stipulate to an abatement, a pause of the alimony, right?
Pete Wright:
Okay, that just means if she's fine, wave it off for a certain period. Everybody agrees you don't have to go in front of a judge.
Seth Nelson:
That's right. You want to get a stipulation, you want it signed by the court so it's a court order so everybody's clear. If you get a new lawyer, there's no misunderstandings, it's all in the court file. But otherwise, yeah, if you lose your job, and in Florida, it has to be you can't lose your job for a week and terminate it, it's supposed to be for six months.
But you want to get into court and file and be like, "Hey, here's the problem. I'm out here applying for jobs every day and I'm not getting anywhere, and here's why, and so I need to do it." Now, they're going to look at your total assets. If you've got $10 million in the bank making 5%, even though you're unemployed-
Pete Wright:
Yeah, you're okay. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
... you might still be making that $1750 a month payment.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Right.
Pete Wright:
Okay, fair. How about this? My wife is initiating divorce, married 22 years. She's a physician with a $630K income, my income's about $200K. One adult child, no child support issues. Is it reasonable to ask for alimony? Would I get it?
Seth Nelson:
Okay, so here is what we would define as high income earners. Some people listening to this show are going to be like, "Seriously, you've got $200,000 of income? No, you don't need alimony." That's a judgment call. You are making a judgment on lowering his standard of living, is my assumption, to live off of 200 grand, when before combined they were living off of 830.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, okay.
Seth Nelson:
Okay?
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Which we can laugh about.
Pete Wright:
I got to. I got to, or I'd cry.
Seth Nelson:
Right. So some people, and I've been where people were making millions and someone had $200,000. Yeah, the person getting $200,000, if you did the ... let's just pretend-
Pete Wright:
35%.
Seth Nelson:
Right. Let's do 630 minus 200, Pete, which is 430. Let's pretend these are net numbers. This is after taxes, which means the 630 was really making 1.2, right?
Pete Wright:
1.2. Sure, right.
Seth Nelson:
The 200 was making 400 roughly, and you times 0.35, 150, right?
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
So, 150.5. So if you take $630,000, I'm just doing the math again, minus $200,000, $430,000 times 0.35, alimony of $150,500 a year. That's the difference. Which you divide that by 12, it's $12,541 a month in alimony.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
I've had cases where people have received and paid more than that number, which means they were high net worth or high earners, okay?
Pete Wright:
I get that what we're talking about is divorce relativism, and it's certainly not our place to judge.
Seth Nelson:
If you are divorcing Jeff Bezos and you earn $200,000 a year, and you were married to him for 10 years and there's no prenup, 'cause he's an idiot, do you think that you don't deserve a higher standard of living based on the law?
Pete Wright:
I don't know, man. That's a hard one to navigate. I get it, I really do. I get it.
Seth Nelson:
But that's a judgment that you're saying-
Pete Wright:
That is a judgment, yeah.
Seth Nelson:
... how much is enough? Because let me tell you, someone that's getting $1000 a month and they're making 20 grand a year, and they look at someone that makes 100 grand a year and being like, "Really, you're getting alimony? You make $100,000 a year."
Pete Wright:
Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
It's the same thing.
Pete Wright:
It's the same thing. No, I absolutely get it. I absolutely get it. Those numbers are just inconceivably large at that point in terms of alimony, so it's hard to imagine the Bezos numbers, but I totally get it.
Seth Nelson:
But I know people that make this kind of money, and the real trick is, are they saving? What are they doing? So the answer to the question would get it, I don't know. I don't have enough facts for that, but you get the concepts. Check your local jurisdiction.
Pete Wright:
All right.
Seth Nelson:
Great questions coming in live.
Pete Wright:
I know. Love those hot, hot live podcast questions. Appreciate that very, very much. Thank you so much for joining us. I think we're clear. I think we've done alimony officially, and what we have to look forward to next time in our journey through your divorce case is child support.
Seth Nelson:
Yes.
Pete Wright:
Isn't that fancy? We teed it up just right with alimony today.
Seth Nelson:
We're just going through the piece.
Pete Wright:
That's it, going through the piece. Thank you everybody for downloading and listening to this show. We appreciate your time and your attention. On behalf of Seth Nelson, America's favorite divorce attorney, I'm Pete Wright. We'll see you next time right here on How to Split a Toaster: A Divorce Podcast About Saving Your Relationships.
Outro:
How to Split a Toaster is part of the TruStory FM Podcast Network, produced by Andy Nelson, music by T. Bless & the Professionals and DB Studios. Seth Nelson is an attorney with NLG Divorce and Family Law with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to, nor is it providing legal advice.
Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of NLG Divorce and Family Law, Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
