The Post-COVID Divorce Dilemma
Unprecedented. If that word doesn’t earn word-of-the-year on every lexicographer’s list for 2020, language is broken. What happens if you’re living through these unprecedented times with a spouse and you’re struggling in your relationship?This week on the show, family law attorney Seth Nelson guides us through the process of navigating a dissolution of a marriage. How do you communicate when your communication is fractured? How do you parent together when you’re struggling to live together? And, if you’re moving toward divorce, how do you engage in your relationship with your lawyer and the courts with an eye toward saving the most important relationships in your life?
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Intro:
Welcome to How to Split a Toaster, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships, from True Story FM. Seth Nelson is an attorney with Nelson Koster Family Law and Mediation with offices in Tampa, Florida. While we may be discussing family law topics, How to Split a Toaster is not intended to nor is it providing legal advice. Every situation is different. If you have specific questions regarding your situation, please seek your own legal counsel with an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction. Pete Wright is not an attorney or employee of Nelson Koster. Seth Nelson is licensed to practice law in Florida.
Seth Nelson:
Hey everybody. And welcome to How to Split a Toaster from True Story FM. I'm Seth Nelson with my good friend, Pete Wright.
Pete Wright:
Hello, everybody.
Seth Nelson:
We're glad you're joining us today. We're going to talk about some things you can do to make it a little easier during these very, very strange times.
Pete Wright:
Seth, I've got a question for you. I've been thinking a lot about this. You're living in a rocky relationship. When you think you want a divorce, what's the first thing you do? Do you look at your partner and ... okay, I need to tell you straight up. I read an article. This is what I'm thinking in the back of my head. I read an article this week and it was by this woman who wrote during COVID that she discovered she wanted to divorce her husband while she was having sex with him.
Seth Nelson:
That is a really terrible time to figure that out.
Pete Wright:
I thought so, too. And so that's what I'm dancing around. That was the headline opinion: "I discovered I needed to divorce my husband while I was having sex with him." And I thought, what is Seth going to say about that?
Seth Nelson:
Well, what I just said. That's a terrible time to come to that conclusion.
Pete Wright:
It's a terrible time. What do you do?
Seth Nelson:
A lot of people in relationships over the last eight weeks to 10 weeks, however long they've been in quarantine, have certainly come to the conclusion that they are ready to get a divorce, go their separate ways. And a lot of that has to do with the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
I find it hard to believe that somebody might've been in an amazing relationship, everything was great, communication was phenomenal, raising the kids together the way that they expected to and they wanted to, and the expectations were clear, and eight weeks later, it all goes crazy.
Pete Wright:
So this was on the horizon.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. I've read studies that say it takes an average of three years from the first time someone thinks in their head, "I might want a divorce" to actually call an attorney.
Pete Wright:
So those cinema moments, "I'm leaving you" moments, those are overnight instant moments that are three years in the making.
Seth Nelson:
I would say that's about three years in the making before they actually call the lawyer. Now, they might've had arguments and the divorce word might've percolated up or a heat of anger, or maybe I'm better off without you or whatever people do when communication is breaking down. But to actually call an attorney, because that's a scary proposition, let's just call it what it is. It's an unknown event and process that you're about to go through from a legal perspective. It's certainly unknown in what's going on with your life.
Seth Nelson:
What are we going to do with the house and the kids, if you have children? What about dividing up our assets? And I can't afford to live on my own. I might need alimony. And Oh my God, the kids have all these extra curriculars. And what about child support? Or what does that cover? There's all these unknowns. And can I even afford an attorney? You can just hear it in their voices when they talk to you or when they call me, or if you're talking to their friends. It permeates everything. To actually come to that conclusion, it's scary, but we're just here to give you some ideas and some suggestions on how you can manage that process. I would tell you that though that's an unfortunate time to come to that conclusion, I don't think that was the first time that might've been percolating around
Pete Wright:
Three years in the making. What am I doing with my spouse if I'm struggling in tight quarters? Am I going to call you first as an attorney? Am I going to start doing my Google searches for great divorce attorneys?
Seth Nelson:
You might, but what I would like people to do, and I would suggest that they do, while you're in quarantine, and even while it's starting to open up, is to first be true to yourself and understand that it's okay that you want to have some space. You're allowed to tell your spouse, "Hey, can I just have a little space right now?" And it's all about understanding what that means and understanding, if you have children, what that means. So the easiest way to describe this to you, and it applies whether you have kids or not, but the kids gives the concept.
Seth Nelson:
So you're quarantined. And maybe we're starting to open up a little bit now. And you're either in the house, or you just want to go out on your own, but you have kids. So my suggestion is you have a conversation with your spouse and say, "Hey, this coming Tuesday, I'll take care of the kids. If you want to go out and go for your run or whatever the case may be, or if you want to just have some quiet time in the house, I'll take care of the kids from this point in time, let's call it 3:30 or 5:00, dinner all the way through bedtime."
Seth Nelson:
Let me tell you, that's probably happening now. Anyway, because usually one parent's the parent that's doing most of the heavy lifting and the other parent comes in and out, gets things crazy and then leaves again.But you can just say, "Look, I'm going to take them, but I'd really appreciate if on Wednesday you can take the kids from the same point of time all the way through bedtime." I call it parent on duty. And what that will do for you is open a dialogue with your spouse to, one, if they are not doing parenting, you're now making a request for them to do so so you can recharge batteries.
Seth Nelson:
And if they are doing parenting with you and it's together and it's all this kind of conflict about, no, I'm not making the right dinner and no, they need to eat their vegetables. No, they've already had three bites. Don't worry about the fourth bite. Whatever the case may be. When you take the time to recharge your batteries and you give parent on duty to the other parent, they just do it.
Seth Nelson:
So if you gave them mac and cheese at lunch and dad's on duty that night, and he's feeding them mac and cheese for dinner, I would suggest just let that go. It's one meal. That time is about you recharging your batteries. And if you need to view it that that is a glorified babysitter that you do not have to pay. You wouldn't care if the babysitter gave her mac and cheese. Yeah, they had it for lunch. It wasn't the greatest, but it's one meal. So just take that time for yourself and have that conversation and then play it out to your spouse, your significant other, and whatever you need to do and see if you can get an arrangement. And that will de-escalate parenting issues because he's on duty, he makes the decisions.
Seth Nelson:
Now, obviously if you're home and the kid trips and falls and comes running to you or whatever, you're going to care for your child, but you might also like redirect, like, "Hey, why don't you go check with daddy?' Oh, you know, I can't find this toy. "Check with daddy. See if he'll look for it. I'm reading a book right now." And kids get that once you do it enough times. They understand.
Pete Wright:
How much is this kind of a tool actually a salve for relationship woes that might not end in divorce?
Seth Nelson:
I think that the basis of solid relationships, and these are a lot of studies I've read and spoken with psychologists I've talked to about all this is, one, you have to have your individual lives and then you come together on things that are really important. Now, you can't have a person that wants all this individuality and then just a little bit of combined with someone that is deemed high maintenance, where it's always combined. In that relationship, it has to balance out, or you have to figure out ways to make that happen.
Seth Nelson:
So, for example, I advise couples, when someone comes to me and they're saying, "Hey, I'm not really sure." Because I'm always checking. Said, "Well, when's the last time you had coffee with your spouse?" They're like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "Well, what's your morning routine? Is this something you'd be interested in, to spend five minutes having coffee with your spouse, just talking about what your day is going to be like, how are they doing? What's their day going to be like? No interruptions before the kids get up or whatever the case may be." Can we do that? Or is it, can we have a glass of wine at this time? Maybe it's not everyday to start. Can we do that on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday?
Seth Nelson:
If you schedule some quality time together and you ask for a commitment to do that, that is the reverse of asking for your space but at least you know that you're coming together and just taking that time. Because I'll tell you, when you got kids, they will suck all the time out of you. They do not care about your personal space. And I know that anyone that has children has been in the bathroom taking care of their personal business when children have walked in. So we know you don't have any personal space. Kids don't respect the boundaries. But if you can create some of that safe space to reconnect with your spouse, that would be one suggestion,
Pete Wright:
Corona outcome, right, is it starts with not having any privacy when you're in the bathroom and it ends with the only privacy you have is when you barricade yourself in the bathroom. Oh, how the tables they have turned.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. They have turned. But if we're not in COVID and you're having difficulties trying to reconnect in a way that is very straightforward: I am giving this request. I miss you. We're very busy. I would really like to sit down and have coffee with you on this day. And it's just a request. If they say, "No, I'm so stressed out, I'm busy at work." Okay, well then what is a good time for you? And if you can't tell me now, think about it and I'll circle back with you. But that's all about communication. And I am not a mental health professional. I do not claim to be a marriage counselor. I'm just talking about finding ways for you to take care of yourself in a healthy manner, either, one, to save the relationship that you're in, or if you are going to get a divorce, to make sure that you're still moving forward in a healthy way through what's going to be a very difficult process.
Pete Wright:
Well, I like the way you said that, save the relationship you're in, and by the same token, save the relationship you might be out of. This is not a slash and burn march to the sea with your most important relationships, right? This is your partner and the parent of your children, perhaps. And you want to save that, too, even if it ends in divorce.
Seth Nelson:
And not only that one, but I think you're one step ahead. I think you have to look about saving the relationship with yourself. And what I mean by that is in my mind, divorce is a legal proceeding that you have to go through. You don't go around, you don't go over or under. You have to go through it. And we'll be talking about ways to help you through that process. But when I fill out a form at the doctor's office and it says, marital status, single, divorced, married, widowed, I get a little frustrated because I am more than one of those things. I am divorced and I'm also single. So why does my doctor care? I have no idea. When I'm filling out insurance papers or whatever the case may be for a car insurance, they ask you that question. There's all these times they do it.
Seth Nelson:
They never ask me, have you ever been in a slip and fall accident litigation? But with divorce, it's like this Scarlet Letter that people were around makes no difference. It's you were married at one time and now you're single. And what happens if you're remarried? Do you put divorced and married? So don't look at it as a life altering event on how you view yourself. Obviously, it's going to be life altering in where you live and how you deal with your kids, but you are you and you will continue to be you and maybe you'll come out of this stronger than you were before. Maybe you'll get skills that you haven't used.
Seth Nelson:
For example, for the first time in your life, maybe you're in charge of your finances. You don't have to run it by anybody. You're not being controlled by someone else with their finances. Or for the first time in your life. You're not worried about this other person spending all the money. You'll have control. It's going to be your finances. You're single. You're going to have your money. You get to make those decisions. So maybe you're going to learn a skill about how to manage your money for the first time.
Pete Wright:
So we're in a state of chaos right now, and I'm curious of the practical matter of your work right now. Many states are opening. Some are opened, some are not open yet, but working on it and trying to figure it out. And people are sort of emerging from the cave of being in such tight quarters. Is your phone ringing off the hook?
Seth Nelson:
I practice in Hillsborough County primarily, but I do cases all over the state. But specifically in Hillsborough County, Florida, through this whole process, the court system quickly got up to speed and remained, and I'll put in quotes, open through Zoom. I've had hearings in front of judges on Zoom. Some are just kind of a conference to say, "Hey, where are we in this case?" I've had what's called evidentiary hearings where you see on TV the witnesses, and they hold up that smoking gun document. But I've had a hearing such as evidentiary hearings on Zoom. Colleagues have had full trials for divorce cases on Zoom, some that dealt solely with issues dealing financially, because there was no children involved. Some dealt with a full parenting plan, all the money issues. So those have progressed.
Seth Nelson:
There was a couple of weeks when the phone got quiet. And I think that's just, everyone is figuring out what was happening early on. Unfortunately, people need our services. And so our phone's been been ringing and we've just changed how we communicate and just like everybody else, we're doing social distancing if we have to meet. We meet a lot of clients on Zoom where I can share my screen and bring up their documents and review. And that's actually, I think, been a very effective way to communicate with clients, which we'll probably continue to do even after all of this passes. We're up, we're running. Hillsborough County, the judges and the chief judge should be commended for the great work that they've done to keep the doors open.
Pete Wright:
So I am coming to you for the first time. What can I expect that initial meeting? We're on Zoom and you start the process and we're off to the races. What does it look like for me?
Seth Nelson:
The first thing I always ask anybody on an initial consultation, is what we would call, that is what is your goal for this meeting? And so I encourage people, before you call a lawyer, figure out what your goal is for that meeting. If your goal is simply to tell your story, I would tell you, I think that's a mistake because that lawyer does not need to know your story at all, unless they're going to retain you. They only need to know enough of your story so they can then give you some basic legal advice and an outline of the process you're going to go through and some of the substantive law that you're going to have to deal with. And that's a lot of stuff I just threw at you.
Seth Nelson:
But for example, I would tell you make a list. If you have kids, is that the other parent, a good parent, in quotes? Do you have any concerns? What are your top three concerns? If it's works a lot, never around the kids, doesn't communicate well with them, has a substance abuse issue, you don't need to go into the details of the last substance abuse, passed out when he was taking care of the kids and I was out and I came home and the kids weren't fed.
Pete Wright:
Well, talk about, why not? Because that's my intention is to make sure you know everything that I know, isn't it?
Seth Nelson:
Not in the first conversation. If you say, "Here are the biggest three things I have concerned about my spouse parenting: one, I'm concerned that he has a substance abuse problem or he's an alcoholic. And here's how it impacts the kids," and you give that one little, "I was out, he was taking care of him. I came home. He was passed out," that is okay, but you don't want to go on for an hour about that whole incident because that lawyer doesn't need to know all that. Right when I hear that little snippet that I just gave, was out, came home, passed out, okay, let me talk to you about how we deal with substance abuse and alcoholism in a dissolution of marriage when we're dealing with kids and here are the different options that we'll have and how we can pursue it.
Pete Wright:
You already know enough by that one liner.
Seth Nelson:
I know enough. And any good lawyer out there should know enough to be able to give you options because there's not just one way to deal with that. There's numerous ways that we'll talk through in podcasts to come. So I would have our goals of, what am I trying to get out of this conversation? I'm concerned about money. I'm concerned about how we divide up assets. I'm concerned that he's hiding money. And you just go through division of assets, division of liabilities. How are we going to deal with the house? Then if you think, "Hey, I can't afford to live on my own because my spouse has the job. I'm raising the kids. What do we do about alimony?" And you're just looking for an outline. You're not going to fill in every single hole and how you're going to deal with it at that moment.
Seth Nelson:
But that lawyer should be able to explain to you, because your goal, and I would tell you your goal in that very first conversation on all of these issues, is to get information from the lawyer, to see if you're communicating well with the lawyer, and to see if you feel like they have a level of experience and a way to communicate with you that will help you get through this process. So it might be, how can I afford it? How does the alimony work? How does child support work? What about these specific issues? My kid's really great at soccer and is on a travel team, but I don't know if we can afford it anymore. How does that work? How does the judge make a decision if my spouse and I can't agree? So just some basic questions, those are the things you're looking for for your answers in that first conversation.
Pete Wright:
How quickly in your experience would I know that? I worry that what you have just told me is counter to my cinematic expectations, which is you and I are now going to be best friends, and we're not going to play racquetball together, that this is a service engagement. And I don't know, every time I see my new lawyer, he's eating a pastrami on rye at the stage deli and that's going to be what our future is. What you're telling me is we're going to have a more mechanical relationship. I'm going to know if I need to work with you pretty quickly. And then we're going to get to brass tacks.
Seth Nelson:
I think most clients figure this out intuitively within the first 20 minutes.
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
I don't think when I'm laying out ... It might sound daunting and I don't mean it to be, but we've all met new people and you've either liked them or didn't like them right away. So it's just going to be an intuitive feel because you might've Googled them and seen the reviews, you might have asked a friend. You should have a question for your lawyer. What are some mistakes that you've made representing clients? What are some of your strengths? What are some of your weaknesses? If they're not answering those questions, then you might want to look elsewhere.
Pete Wright:
I feel like we need a whole episode coming up very soon on how to make your lawyer your best friend. And it's going to be great. Don't worry about it. It's going to be great.
Seth Nelson:
Here's the deal. You don't want your lawyer being your best friend. Okay?
Pete Wright:
You are shattering my reality.
Seth Nelson:
Here's why: they charge by the hour. You are not there to have your lawyer be your best friend. In fact, I will tell clients, "I am not your friend. I'm your lawyer." It's like being the captain of a ship. I'm going to need to know information to help get us through this storm. But I need the information and a way that I receive it, a lot of it's by the client, how do they like to communicate? Is it going to be by texts, by Zoom, by phone, by email? I can take in information all different ways, but I'm going to need information in a certain manner in a certain time during this process.
Seth Nelson:
If in the first meeting, you unload everything in your initial consultation and you just tell me, tell me, tell me your story and I keep my mouth shut, that gives you no information on whether I'm the right lawyer for you. Can you stop your lawyer and ask her a question and make sure you're understanding it? How is that communication working? The other question I would advise you to ask or suggest at the end of the conversation, before you finish up, your last question, it should always be, is there anything else I should be asking you that I've missed? See what they have to say.
Pete Wright:
How many lawyers should I be shopping around with?
Seth Nelson:
I don't think there's a specific number. I think if you know someone that's worked with the Lord and they're very close and you just call them and it's exactly what you're expected, and that kind of works for you, you can go with that. I always advise clients, I'm happy for you to go talk to another two or three lawyers. When I get a client, let's say, that's talked to four or five or six different lawyers, I, as the lawyer am now concerned like, "Ooh, maybe this isn't the right fit."
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
But then I'll ask the client, just tell me who you've spoken to. Because if they list off three or four lawyers that I think through their reputation and my dealings with them might not been a good fit for what I'm hearing from the client, then I'll be like, okay, I don't think they've found the right one yet. But if they're at eight, nine, 10, I'm like, no, I'm never going to meet this client's expectations.
Pete Wright:
They might actually be looking for a best friend.
Seth Nelson:
They might be. And then that is not going to be the attorney client relationship that is going to help them get through this process in such a way to save the money. And look, it's an emotional, emotional area of the law. So I will certainly, what we do, talk clients off the edge, but it's how you do it and letting them know that you really have their best interests at heart. And not everything that's happened to them and is happening to you out there in your current life, the court system is not going to fix all those problems. If you've been married to somebody for 20 years, that zebra's not going to change their stripes. It's not like it's going to change during the divorce or after the divorce. During the divorce, it will be more heightened.
Seth Nelson:
If you're anxious, you're going to be hyper anxious during this uncertainty. If you watch every dime, you're going to watch every penny. If the other person is controlling, they're going to be super controlling, right? If you're fearful, which a lot of people are, they're going to be extremely afraid during this process. And just recognize it. Once you recognize this emotion that you're going through, it will help you get through it. But being able to communicate in a way efficiently, because it costs money, in a way that you can understand what your lawyer is saying and getting your questions answered is key. And that is really what you should be looking to determine in that first conversation with your lawyer.
Pete Wright:
So you're coming out into the open. This is how you start. You don't have to worry about the process. Just don't look for a best friend. Although I would say that I would, as a lawyer, don't assume that you'd be the first person that I'd pay to be my best friend.
Pete Wright:
Let's define a term.
Seth Nelson:
So in this segment, I thought we were trying to take some legalese and turn it into plain English so we can understand what your lawyer is talking about. So I will read to you a definition from Black's Law Dictionary, today I have the eighth edition, that will define it in a legal sense, and then I will convert it to English so we can understand what is happening. The term for today is petition. Petition, noun. A formal written request presented to a court or other official body. Now, to tie this into a dissolution of marriage, a petition for dissolution of marriage is simply the formal written request that your lawyer will send into the court asking the judge to dissolve your marriage, petition for dissolution of marriage.
Seth Nelson:
Within that document, your lawyer might be asking for a parenting plan, might be asking for the division of assets and debts, might be asking for alimony or saying that the other side doesn't need alimony, might be asking for child support, might be asking for attorney's fees and other types of request. It is just the document that gets the legal process formally started in the courts, petition for dissolution of marriage.
Seth Nelson:
How to Split a Toaster as a divorce podcast about saving your relationships. The goal that we have here is simple: to help you get through a divorce process while saving the relationship with yourself and, the best that you can, your spouse, your children, your extended family, your friends, and anyone else that you come in contact with during this very difficult process. I've been solely focusing my legal practice on divorce now for over 12 years and I've been through a divorce. When I got divorced, I had a very small child. He was only two and a half years old, and he's now 16. So I've also seen how lives change, my life is much different now than it was when he was two and a half, and how other people have come into his life and been very positive, and how my life and his life has changed. Because, let's be frank about it, a parenting plan for two and a half year old. Isn't going to be the same plan for a 16-year-old.
Pete Wright:
Although that would be a riot as a premise for like a TV show. Perfect.
Seth Nelson:
The plan that never changes.
Pete Wright:
That's right.
Seth Nelson:
No plan B.
Pete Wright:
All right, I know you're 16, but I have to change your diaper.
Seth Nelson:
Here's the milk and cookies.
Pete Wright:
Somebody, intern, make a note. Somebody needs to make that. Go ahead.
Seth Nelson:
Exactly. So I've just seen a lot and a lot of it is personalities. And it's all the same issues, but it is different personalities and figuring out how people can work together. And the most important thing, as hard as this stuff is to conceptualize is during a divorce, is to decrease conflict. So pick your battles. There's going to be a lot of little things that you can just let go. You don't have to quote win on every point. We just have to get through the process and make sure that you can save the relationship, I think most importantly, with yourself.
Pete Wright:
This podcast, it's not fair to call it a how to divorce podcast, but there is something about learning to be an active manager of your own divorce that we do want you to walk away with.
Seth Nelson:
Absolutely. And these are suggestions to help you go through the process. And the reason why I wouldn't call it a how to? Because every personality is different. The person you're dealing with is different. These are just suggestions on what you can do to help be engaged in the process and not leave it solely to others so you can then manage your relationship with yourself and with others.
Pete Wright:
You've got a stable of friends and colleagues in and around the universe of divorce that are going to join us for this show. Yeah?
Seth Nelson:
Oh, looking forward to it. I have just some amazing colleagues that I've had the pleasure to work with that would be anything from what's called a child psychologist, ways that you can work with your kids through this. There are forensic accountants, people that will go in and look at all your finances and figure out how things will be divided and what child support guidelines are. And these are people that you might come in contact with during your divorce. So how do you manage that relationship with them and get them the information in a very streamlined way that can save you money? How do you deal with your lawyer, we've already talked about.
Seth Nelson:
I've got other colleagues that are parent coordinators. When two people can't work well parenting when they're not living in the same house anymore, how do we make sure that, hey, are we agreeing on an extracurricular activity? What about the driving? Who is going to get them there? How are we going to pick them up? How are we going to communicate about transitioning a child from one house to the other? There's all sorts of things that you might not have thought of that we're going to give some tips to say, hey, think of things a different way. And when you think of things a different way, you might not agree. That's fine. But at least you've considered it and there might be more positives than negatives and trying to do that. Like, what's a day to exchange a child.
Pete Wright:
I don't know. Is that a quiz? Tuesday. Tuesday. No, Wednesday.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. So now here you are, Pete. You're just picking days.
Pete Wright:
I'm just picking days.
Seth Nelson:
Okay. That's cause we're in quarantine and they're all the same days.
Pete Wright:
They don't mean anything anymore.
Seth Nelson:
But a lot of people think, "Okay, well we're going to at least split the weekends. We might not do a 50/50 timesharing, but I get that they should be in, so dad can have him Friday night and Saturday night, and I want him home Sunday at six." Does that sound good to you, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Okay.
Seth Nelson:
Seems pretty fair though. Hey, get them home Sunday at six. I want to get them ready for school the next day. I think that's a mistake. It's your kids. It's up to you. Why would that be a mistake? Because if those kids come back to you at 6:00 on a Sunday and they go to bed, if they're in grade school at 8:00/8:30 or if they're in middle school, 9:00/9:30, but there's a project due on Monday, that project's not done.
Pete Wright:
And you've just inherited it.
Seth Nelson:
You've inherited it. They're not bathed. They're not fed. They've had no organization all weekend, because it's the weekend. There's no structure. And now that child is going to come home to you. Nothing's going to be done. And the next three to four hours is a nightmare for that child. It's a nightmare for you too. I'm just looking at from a kid's perspective.
Pete Wright:
Sure. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
Because now you're like, "Oh my God, my ex didn't even do that. Now I've got to do X, Y, and Z. This is going to be terrible." So if you change the drop-off to Monday morning at school, dad's now responsible for making sure that project's done.
Pete Wright:
And you're no longer sowing discord between the parents.
Seth Nelson:
There's no conflict there. He had them that weekend. Project was due on Monday. Get it done over the weekend.
Pete Wright:
This is why people need to listen to this podcast and subscribe. Because you've got these nuggets.
Seth Nelson:
And that's what they are. They're just little nuggets. So the great thing about talking with you on this podcast, Pete, is you haven't been through a divorce.
Pete Wright:
No.
Seth Nelson:
So all of it is just a blank slate for you. And what I really appreciate about talking with you is when I say, "Hey, what's a good day to switch the kid?" You're like, "I don't know," and you immediately sounded panicked to me.
Pete Wright:
Oh, too true. This whole concept raises my anxiety a lot. So if I can be a foil for anybody anxious about going into divorce, I'm your guy.
Seth Nelson:
Right. And ask those questions and talk to your friends about, "Hey, what was difficult for you when you were going through the process?" And they'll let you know. It's easy for them.
Pete Wright:
Yes, they will.
Seth Nelson:
They'll let you know. But just imagine you, like you just did, not going through a divorce, just the concept of it ... And I asked you a simple question, what's a good day to switch the kids, and your anxiety level rose. Now, imagine if that's really happening to you now, you're going to want to talk to somebody that has had some experience representing clients and can give you different options. There is no perfect plan. There is no perfect day to exchange children. There's positives and negatives to every plan. You're going to want to understand those and relate those to your family. And every plan is different.
Seth Nelson:
And I have had people say, "I don't care what the plan is. I just want 50/50." I'm like, "Okay, how old is your kid?" And they say, "My kid is 10 years old." I said, "Okay, we need a 50/50 plan for the next eight years. Right?" Right. I said, "I got it. She gets the first four years. You get the second four years." Now, obviously that's ridiculous. And I'm like, that point is you don't just want a 50/50. Right? You want a plan that works for you and your kids. Say, "Okay, I get it. So I got another one. You can have them on day one. She has them on day two. You have them on day three. She has them on day four. You have every other day." He's like, "That's crazy." I'm like, "Of course it is."
Pete Wright:
That sort of plan is the thing that drives people to get married again.
Seth Nelson:
Right? Just stick with it.
Pete Wright:
You know what? It's fine. We're fine.
Seth Nelson:
So you have to balance that, when kids don't see their parents for long periods of time, against too much back and forth. And what's going on in that child's life? How late do their activities go? And that's why, like we're saying, different for two-and-a-half-year-old than it is for a 16-year-old. So you have to have that flexibility as well. And that's one of those conversations when you talk to a lawyer the very first time is, what are some different plans if it was 50/50? I don't think because of his job, because he travels so much, that he can handle a 50/50. Let's just break that down a little bit.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Yeah.
Seth Nelson:
So your questions and your anxiety is at a microcosm compared to what everyone's going through if they're actually going through this process.
Pete Wright:
Truly. And I hope that my anxiety can serve as a vessel for others, knowing full well that I'm only aspiring to do service to those questions. You can ask questions to the show and we hope you do. We'll put a forum up on our website where you can submit your own questions and let us know what you would like to hear us talk about. We're eager to bring your issues to the table, and Seth can give you some guidance and I can be your puppet. That was what we're trying to do.
Seth Nelson:
And here's some suggestions on your questions. Try to do it two ways. Sometimes you might want to write a little paragraph like, "Hey, here's the issue I'm dealing with. Any suggestions?" And I'm not giving legal advice on this. It's going to be talk to your lawyer. But we'll pull those out, because usually those questions I get are all the same questions written differently. Or do it like a bullet point. So you can actually practice different ways to ask your question as if you were going to talk to somebody about it.
Pete Wright:
Oh, look at you. You're everyone's surrogate lawyer meeting.
Seth Nelson:
Yeah. But it's not about the legal advice. It's all about, hey, are there different suggestions for a parenting plan? Because I will tell you the first one, I have no idea what the law is in Utah when it comes to a parenting plan.
Pete Wright:
Sure, sure.
Seth Nelson:
I know Florida law. I don't know what it is in Hawaii, New York, or all over this great nation that we live in. But at least there's some concepts we can give you to go ask your lawyer, "Hey, what about this? Any suggestions on how to deal with that?" And how do you deal with the kids when it is a 6:00 and they get dropped off and the homework's not done? Is it going to be this total fiasco or it's going to be, "Hey, we're going to do the best we can tonight. We're going to do the best we can on this project. And let's try to get through the next couple hours together and we'll figure out better ways to make sure that this stuff is done ahead of time." Not once in that whole sentence did I say what you're really thinking: because that darn spouse didn't get it done.
Pete Wright:
Yeah, right?.
Seth Nelson:
Because you're talking to your kid. And when you're talking to your kid and you blame the spouse for not getting it done, that's just causing problems. So I hope you tune in so we can help you be an active member in saving your relationships, most importantly, the one with yourself during this very difficult time of potentially going through a divorce. You can find the show in Apple podcast, Spotify, or any of your favorite podcast applications and listening on the web, and links to the show notes that we can provide for you. We'll be back next week on How to Split a Toaster from True Story FM, a divorce podcast about saving your relationships.
